Mad Russian Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Currently reading Battle at Best by S.L.A. Marshall The book details the fight of a Paratrooper platoon for three days. It took them three days of fighting to run out of ammo. It also details very well the movements and fighting of a platoon, company and battalion. The book is about several small unit actions, and covers several theaters, in several wars. Maybe this will help some on the whole concept of what happens to men in combat and how the time is spent along with the ammunition. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 "Battle at Best"? Interesting. I've never even heard of that book. I'll do an Amazon search. Edit - I found a copy on Amazon for $3.18, so why not. I'll take a look at it. [ January 30, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: "Battle at Best"? Interesting. I've never even heard of that book. I'll do an Amazon search. BTW - Are you sure it isn't 'Battle at Brest"? No Paratroopers were involved in the battle for Brest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: "Battle at Best"? Interesting. I've never even heard of that book. I'll do an Amazon search. Edit - I found a copy on Amazon for $3.18, so why not. I'll take a look at it. All of his work is done at very low level and are all worth taking a look at. While you are looking Night Drop is another excellent source of the types of information you are looking for. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokal Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 This is a CM-2-ish solution to the scale/pace problem. It seems what is needed is an operational map/layer that covers more time and space at a different speed. The two opposing sides would have smaller facing segments of the larger picture and could chose what parts of their area of responsibility they want to deal with in detail. For example, an attacking player could demand more air recon and corps artillery support at the price of delay and the possibility of being relieved of command or having the enemy dig in better and bring up more arillery himself. Players would also have the option of resolving some engagements at the operational level in some default resolution mode. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30ot6 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I spend three hours on a thirty minute battle anyway. If a more realistic communication and command system was implemented making it possible to play in real time, I wouldn't mind that at all. So instead of playing 30 minutes of game time in 3 hours, you get to play 3 hours of game time. I.e., real time. What I'm trying to say is that long game times aren't an issue. We already have those, even though the battles are short in length. For example: when I had the CMBB demo, I would spend 6 hours playing Yelnia Stare, and that's just a 25 minute scenario. [ February 02, 2004, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: 30ot6 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted February 2, 2004 Author Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Panther Commander: All of his work is done at very low level and are all worth taking a look at. While you are looking Night Drop is another excellent source of the types of information you are looking for. I am only familiar with Marshall from Men Against Fire, which I had to read in college. I have not read any of his other works, probably because they seem not to be in current publication. What I saw during my quick Amazon search was that his tactical histories all seem to have been last published in the '60s. I wonder why he has fallen out of current publication. I am familiar with the controversy surrounding Men Against Fire. Has that tarnished his other work? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panther Commander: All of his work is done at very low level and are all worth taking a look at. While you are looking Night Drop is another excellent source of the types of information you are looking for. I am only familiar with Marshall from Men Against Fire, which I had to read in college. I have not read any of his other works, probably because they seem not to be in current publication. What I saw during my quick Amazon search was that his tactical histories all seem to have been last published in the '60s. I wonder why he has fallen out of current publication. I am familiar with the controversy surrounding Men Against Fire. Has that tarnished his other work? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Here's one article on Men Against Fire: http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/03autumn/chambers.pdf Unquestionably, Marshall’s claims that many soldiers were not firing their rifles brought the attention of the public and the Army to this issue. Those claims contributed to analysis and improvements in infantry training designed to increase rates of fire. As Roger J. Spiller of the Army’s Combat Studies Institute has written, the variables in when and why troops fire or do not fire their weapons in certain combat situations involve the kind of terrain, the nature of particular circumstances, the types of weapons, and the trajectory of a soldier’s time in combat. But without further corroboration, the source of Marshall’s contentions about shockingly low fire ratios at least in some US Army divisions in World War II appears to have been based at best on chance rather than scientific sampling, and at worst on sheer speculation. It seems most probable that Marshall, writing as a journalist rather than as a historian, exaggerated the problem and arbitrarily decided on the one-quarter figure because he believed that he needed a dramatic statistic to give added weight to his argument. The controversial figure was probably a guess. If First Lieutenant Frank Brennan’s experience accompanying Marshall on after-action, group interviews in Korea in 1953 is typical, however, even if more of Marshall’s field notebooks are found, they probably will not contain the kind of data necessary to substantiate the controversial assertions of Men Against Fire. [ February 02, 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Sergei ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: "Battle at Best"? Best is the name of a Dutch village near a bridge the 101st. Airborne was tasked to capture on the first day of Market-Garden. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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