UK inf vs the tank

[Cabe Booth]

nice footage, i always liked the propaganda film of all the king tigers under review. Make you wonder how they lost that war. Oh yeah.......air superiority helps.

i don't know if this is in you list because i have not got through them all yet, I didn't even know they had one of these running. But then of course i never checked.

restored king tiger takes a stroll

[Paul AU]

(For no reason at all...)

My father was in 2nd Para, and reckons the PIAT was almost useless because it was so hard to *load*.

[jBrereton]

Originally posted by Paul AU:

(For no reason at all...)

My father was in 2nd Para, and reckons the PIAT was almost useless because it was so hard to *load*.

Yep, and supposedly the rockets fell out if you pointed it downwards, which meant that ambushes could be a bit tricky.

[Guest Mike]

PIAT loading was a problem 'cos of the nature of the weapon - it had a long spigot that traveled up the centre of the bomb striking teh propulsive charge to set it off - the bomb then flew off the end of the spigot - it was thsi spigot that provided "guidance", not the trough the bomb sat in.

the recoil of the bomb was supposed to reset the spigot by forcing it back against the spring.

the spring was enormously strong, and apparently took a man standing using both hands to cock it - the recoil system often did not work so this was an all too common problem.

Teh bomb was not held in the tough so could indeed fall out if tilted too far - a problem with shooting from upper stories at short range, but not otherwise.

wiki article

[civdiv]

I love these kinds of discussions! They make me just keep coming back.

civdiv

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

According to Ian Hogg, the PIAT could be cocked prone--if you didn't mind risking serious back injury to do so. Must've been quite a drill holding that monster to the chest while simultaneously using the legs to push the end plate cum buttstock back enough to compress the powerful spring, then rotating the whole assembly a quarter turn to lock it in ready to fire condition. Even more fun under fire!

I don't call it a monster lightly, having had the chance at a gun show to actually pick an empty one up. Weighed a ton! Can't even imagine what it would've been like dragging one all over Northwest Europe.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Didn't notice it the first time through, but I sure did this time: sticky bombs and PIATs at Villers-Bocage!

The accounts are on pages 130 and 131 of STEEL INFERNO, by Michael Reynolds.

C Company of the 1/7 Queens fields a series of tank hunter teams, each built around a PIAT and some men armed with sticky bombs. One such encounter was vs. 4 x Tiger 1 and 1 x Panzer IV, opening PIAT fire after approaching from a side road at 20 meters and following up with a shower of sticky bombs. No directly observed results, other than than forcing the tank into the sights of deadly 6 pdr. and tank fire! Later, we read that the combination of PIATs and sticky bombs dropped from above and thrown from the ground floors definitely accounted for one Tiger 1 and one Panzer IV. Suggest fans of close combat read the pages cited.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Bannon DC]

On the subject of British anti-tank infantry tactics... I have a scenario at TSD on the subject. (works best as two player)

British Infantry AT Tactics 1940

I have always been amazed at the limited tools the British were equiped with. The British AT doctrine seems more theoretical than practical, even late into the war. Something to the affect of "the infantry needn't worry because they will always be supported by the other combat arms." Theory quickly fails on the battlefield when the enemy doesn't cooperate.

To emphasize the point... from the British brief:

"Now... you might be asking 'How are we going to fight tanks without tanks of our own.?'"

"Don't you know?!" one of the men shouts causing an immediate stir among the assembled men.

"No worries," the captain says confidently. "Allow me to read from the training pamphlet "Tank Hunting and Destruction" which I reviewed on the way here. I quote this inspiring passage: 'Tank hunting must be regarded as a sport - big game hunting at its best. A thrilling albeit dangerous sport, which if skillfully played is about as hazardous as shooting a tiger on the foot, and in which the same principles of stalk and ambush are followed."*

"So," the captain said light heartedly, "we can be happy the Germans aren't riding into battle on the backs of tigers. Eheheh." The captain looks out at the blank stares of the group. The joke is obviously lost on the men.

An "Operation Sealion" scenario matching British Infantry against German mechanized force in the village of Wains Cotting. Small map, small number of units.

* Actual quote from the 1940 pamphlet describing tactics to be employed against German armor in an invasion of England.

[Antman]

Just curious:

The Soviets were supplied with the bazooka

via Lend-Lease...what were the circumstances behind the Commonwealth forces being stuck

with the Piat?

[Antman]

"Wains Cotting" - nice.

In Norway, the Royal Commandos battled

Nazi armour near Skirtingbord....

[Guest Mike]

They invented the PIAT?

The Sov's were supplied with Bazooka's, but made little use of them - although there is footage of troops carrying bazooka's using amphibious jeeps on youtube - Soviet infantry AT was overwhelmingly hand hurled grenades (incl MC's) and ATR's

[dieseltaylor]

Solution #16

posted on May 26, 2006

Not Rated (0)

Lizzy

Lizzy - usenet poster

Rank:Apprentice Apprentice

Rating: 0%, 0 votes

I second this one. In my national service I had to carry the thing and

fire it in practice. I do believe I'd rather have faced real soldiers

with real weapons.

There's a story that some British infantryman got the Victoria Cross for

knocking out two or three German tanks with the PIAT, fired from the hip.

Nobody has ever been sure whether the VC was for the tanks or for using

the PIAT.

The PIAT missile was like a round ball with fins one side and a long snout

the other, and at the end of the snout was a hyper-sensitive fuse. Touch

it and you're gone. The bomb was laid on a curved surface that had a

dangerous rail thing over the end. The recoil was enough to break a

shoulder and after the bomb landed the fins would come whistling back to

decapitate the firer.

--

Jim Garner, sage and dogsbody.

#

(613) 526-4786; 759B Springland, Ottawa, ON K1V 6L9 Canada

"The best-laid femmes go oft astray"

On July 10th the operation commenced, ‘D’ Company left and ‘B’ Company right crossed the start line and attacked forward up the slopes of the hill. ‘D’ Company reached their objective, a small copse, and dug in on the reverse slope of the hill. ‘B’ Company on the right also reached their objective without serious difficulty and dug in.

But ‘C’ Company had the most difficult task. Their objective was the top of the hill where they were to destroy the enemy and then fall back into positions prepared for them meanwhile by ‘A’ Company on the reverse slope, just below the summit. Despite mortar, shell and small arms fire, ‘C’ Company gained the top and got astride the Caen – Esquay road, but there they were pinned down by intense fire from dug-in ‘Tiger’ tanks and machine guns in the area of Esquay.

They had done magnificent work and gained their objective, but they were in a hopelessly exposed position with little chance of getting back into the comparative safety of the reverse slope. Moreover, their ammunition was running short. C.S.M. SMITH, however, came up in his Bren carrier with fresh supplies, breasting the top of the hill; he took in the situation and saw an enemy tank shooting its way along the road straight towards the prostrate company. He grasped the P.I.A.T. from the carrier and running forward through the tall corn, he fired from the hip and knocked out the tank.

He was later awarded the Military Medal for this action.

[Guest Mike]

From wiki:

Private Ernest Alvia "Smokey" Smith of the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada earned the Victoria Cross after crawling to within thirty feet of a Panther tank to destroy it with a PIAT.

In one of the most remarkable examples of bravery under fire, Major Robert Henry Cain also earned the Victoria Cross at Arnhem during Operation Market Garden. Using a PIAT (in addition to several other weapons) he destroyed or disabled six tanks, four of which were Tiger tanks, as well as a number of self-propelled guns.