British Hero's...The Military Medal... Need Information

[Mad Russian]

I have read that Britians most decorated soldier is a Sergeant Fred Kite. That he won three Military Medals. What level of achievement is that? What do those medals equate to in the US Army?

I know of one instance in WWII where a British soldier won two VC's. :cool:

So am I to assume that Sergeant Kite is the only British soldier to have recieved three medals in the war? :confused:

Panther Commander

[Firefly]

I believe he was the only soldier to win three Military Medals in the war, or in British Army parlance, the Military Medal and two bars. The Military Medal is a 'middle ranking' medal awarded only to NCOs and other ranks, the officer's equivalent ia the Military Cross. It should be noted that Sergeant Pike was actually recommended by his CO for the higher ranking Distinguished Conduct Medal for the deeds that won him his two bars.

Only three men have won the VC and bar, two British (one in the Boer War, one in WW1) and one New Zealander (in WW2). The Victoria Cross website is here

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Panther Commander:

I have read that Britians most decorated soldier is a Sergeant Fred Kite. That he won three Military Medals. What level of achievement is that? What do those medals equate to in the US Army?

I know of one instance in WWII where a British soldier won two VC's. :cool:

So am I to assume that Sergeant Kite is the only British soldier to have recieved three medals in the war? :confused:

Panther Commander

There is no "equivalency" as US awards were given out very liberally. The Bronze Star practically came up with the rations.

In the CW, these are the awards for bravery in order from least important to most (you might look at my Decorations page at http://members.shaw.ca/madorosh/decorations2.htm )

Mention in Despatches - all ranks, can be posthumous

Military Medal - Other Ranks only, cannot be awarded posthumously

Distinguished Conduct Medal - other ranks only, cannot be awarded posthumously

Military Cross - Warrant Officers and officers, only cannot be awarded posthumously

Distinguished Service Order - generally to senior officers, rarely awarded to junior officers, cannot be awarded posthumously

Victoria Cross - all ranks, can be awarded posthumously

Foreign awards - these were quite common; Belgian, Dutch and French awards were not uncommonly awarded to Allied troops in NW Europe.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Firefly:

The Military Medal is a 'middle ranking' medal awarded only to NCOs and other ranks, the officer's equivalent ia the Military Cross.

It's actually the lowest actual award for bravery you can get, excepting the Mention in Despatches which is not a medal.

[manu1]

That VC website is great. Interesting to see that two of the three men who were awarded a bar for their VC were medics (or would be called that today).

[JonS]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Firefly:

The Military Medal is a 'middle ranking' medal awarded only to NCOs and other ranks, the officer's equivalent ia the Military Cross.

It's actually the lowest actual award for bravery you can get, excepting the Mention in Despatches which is not a medal. </font>

[Andreas]

And then there is of course the dreaded OBE (Order of the British Empire), translated as 'Other Buggers' Effort' if none of the above will do it quite as it should, and the George Cross for heroic action not under fire, or by non-combat personnel (e.g. padres or stretcher-bearers).

[flamingknives]

Side note: as of 1995, the MM was replaced with the MC being made available to all ranks.

[Michael Dorosh]

The lower orders of the British Empire were fairly common. ie the MBE, as well as the British Empire Medal (BEM). I've seen awards to support personnel (ie quartermasters in infantry regiments) get the BEM for services rendered.

In Canada, the MM and DCM (or MC and DSO for officers) were replaced in 1972 with the Medal of Bravery and the Star of Courage. They wanted to get rid of the VC, too, but were persuaded to keep it, but changing the inscription FOR VALOUR into the the latin POR VALORE in order to recognize both of Canada's official languages.

The MB and SC seem to have been awarded for non-combat bravery in recent years. Hard to categorize courage, but one does kind of wonder about the wisdom of putting someone who saved someone from drowning in the same category as someone who charges an MG nest. That was probably why they at the Albert Lifesaving Medal or whatever it was in the first place!

[ January 25, 2004, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by Firefly:

I believe he was the only soldier to win three Military Medals in the war, or in British Army parlance, the Military Medal and two bars. The Military Medal is a 'middle ranking' medal awarded only to NCOs and other ranks, the officer's equivalent ia the Military Cross. It should be noted that Sergeant Pike was actually recommended by his CO for the higher ranking Distinguished Conduct Medal for the deeds that won him his two bars.

Only three men have won the VC and bar, two British (one in the Boer War, one in WW1) and one New Zealander (in WW2). The Victoria Cross website is here

Yes, I've seen the website. Sorry I was counting the New Zealander as a British Soldier. An American mistake.

Panther Commander

[Mad Russian]

Thanks to all of you, for making an American a bit less ignorant about the rest of the world. All these responses bring up a few more questions though.

The source I read said that Sgt. Kite was Britians most decorated soldier in WWII. Is that correct or not? Or is he the most decorated non-Officer? Or is he the only British soldier to have won three medals of any type? Or what?

Also it appears to me that if you are killed in the Service of England the need for a medal is past and they don't award them. I am sure that preception is wrong. Most of the medals listed are shown as not being issued postumously. So what is the deal with that?

Panther Commander

[flamingknives]

I'd guess that it's harder to check on stuff for posthumous awards, so they only get awarded for significant/memorable stuff - putting a posthumous award into VC class.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Panther Commander:

Thanks to all of you, for making an American a bit less ignorant about the rest of the world. All these responses bring up a few more questions though.

The source I read said that Sgt. Kite was Britians most decorated soldier in WWII. Is that correct or not? Or is he the most decorated non-Officer? Or is he the only British soldier to have won three medals of any type? Or what?

Also it appears to me that if you are killed in the Service of England the need for a medal is past and they don't award them. I am sure that preception is wrong. Most of the medals listed are shown as not being issued postumously. So what is the deal with that?

Panther Commander

"Most Decorated Soldier" is a tough one, as the issuance of awards was rather stingy in the CW, at least by US or German standards. Not that the US or Germans soldiers didn't deserve what they got, it was just a matter of differing policies. Canadian corps commander Guy Simonds was of the opinion that campaign medals were all that was necessary, to be issued after the war.

Upham of the New Zealanders was awarded two VCs in WW II - the only one to do so IIRC. In that sense, he may be considered "most decorated". There were individuals who won the MM as an other rank, been promoted to officer, and then received decorations they were previously not entitled to such as the MC or DSO. Some MM winners from WW I were thus rewarded as officers in WW II.

Sgt. Tommy Prince of the Canadians was very highly decorated, and was the most highly decorated Native soldier of WW II, being a member of the First Special Service Force and being entitled to US awards.

Truly outstanding NCOs might receive the MM and then later the DCM or vice versa - the MM was not a prerequisite for the DCM, and I think most DCM winners never got the MM. This was the same with the US - ie the Bronze Star was not a prerequisite for the Silver Star. This was opposite to German practice, where the awards were merited in strict sequence (but also given our more liberally - the Iron Cross II Class was a prerequisite for the EK I and Knight's Cross, but all three could be awarded concurrently, too, for actions of extreme valour).

Also, the German awards could be made for either leadership OR valour, whereas the VC was for valour only, the DSO generally for leadership only, the DCM and MM for valour only. An Iron Cross First Class could be merited by, for example, taking out a machinegun nest with a toothpick, but also for commanding a FlaK battery that stopped an enemy tank attack, or downed X number of aircraft. The recipient would not have been required to fire a shot himself. The only British award like that was the DSO, and almost always went to battalion commanders only. There may be rare exceptions of company/squadron/battery commanders receiving this award also.

I think an overlooked aspect of the British CW award system is the use of foreign awards. Given the strict criteria of the British system of awards, I think commanders in NW Europe found it convenient to award the Croix de Guerre and other French, Belgian and Dutch awards in their place? I am quite fuzzy on how that worked and would love to learn more if anyone can educate me. But I was quite suprised when reading the awards documents of my own regiment from WW II to find a low number of "Canadian" valour awards, and an interesting proportion of foreign awards.

Am I digressing much?

I've only seen scant references to any claims of "most decorated soldier" in the British or CW armies. Even Audie Murphy's claim to be most decorated US soldier in WW II has been held up to scrutiny and there are one or two other worthy candidates.

Anthony Herbert claimed to be most decorated soldier of the Korean War, but he included Turkish decorations to his total. I suspect Murphy's total was also "inflated" by French/Belgian awards, no?

Again, the British CW troops did have foreign awards, but rather than "piling on" with them, they were often a substitute for a well-earned MM or DCM that the guy should have got, but didn't.

I have an entire page on my CANUCK website devoted to Canadian soldiers who got recommended for the VC, but didn't get it. It makes for interesting reading - and the nominees outnumber the actual recipients. I wonder if that would be the case with Medal of Honor nominees/recipients?

Also be aware that the Bronze Star was handed out to soldiers at the end of WW II in some units only to inflate their rotation point totals; I think this was the case in the 101 Airborne Div for example?

If you see an MM ribbon on someone, you know he was in a minority, and that he earned that ribbon the hard way. If you see a metal rosette on the ribbon, indicating a bar, that says even more.

Two bars to the MM was almost unheard of, so even if Sgt. Kite is not the "most decorated" soldier - he is in a very exclusive club.

[ January 26, 2004, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[ricky77]

Lt Col Robert Blair Mayne. As the most decorated British soldier of World War II.The Victoria Cross should have been given to him but wasn't because of his unorthodox rules and his resentment of authority

[ricky77]

Third Bar to DSO.

On Monday April 9th 1945, Lt.Col. R.B.Mayne was ordered by the GOC 4th Canadian Armoured Division to lead his Regiment (then consisting of two armoured jeep squadrons) through the British lines and infiltrate through the German lines. His general axis of advance was N/East towards the city of Oldenburg, with the special task of clearing a path for the Canadian armoured cars and tanks, and also causing alarm and disorganisation behind the enemy lines. As subsequent events proved the task of Lt.Col. Mayne's force was entirely and completely successful. This success however was solely due to the brilliant military leadership and cool calculating courage of Lt.Col.Mayne who, by a single act of supreme bravery drove the enemy from a strongly held key village thereby breaking the crust of the enemy defences in the whole of this sector.

The following is a detailed account of the Lt.Col's individual action which called for both unsurpassed heroism and cool clear sighted military knowledge.

Lt.Col.Mayne on receiving a wireless message from the leading squadron reporting that it was heavily engaged by enemy fire and that the squadron commander had been killed immediately drove forward to the scene of the action. From the time of his arrival until the end of the action Lt.Col. Mayne was in full view of the enemy and exposed to fire from small arms, machine guns, sniper rifles and Panzerfausts. On arrival he summed up the situation in a matter of seconds and entered the nearest house alone and ensured the enemy here had either withdrawn or been killed. He then siezed a Bren gun and magazines and single handly fired burst after burst into a second house, killing or wounding the enemy there and also opened fire on the woods. He then ordered a jeep to come forward and take over his fire position before returning to the forward position where he disposed the men to the best advantage and ordered another jeep to come forward. He got into the jeep and with another officer as rear gunner drove forward past the position where the Squadron Commander had been killed a few minutes previously and continued to point a hundred yards ahead where a further section of jeeps were halted by intense and accurate enemy fire. This section had suffered casualties and wounded owing to the heavy enemy fire and the survivors were unable at that time to influence the action in any way until the arrival of Lt.Col.Mayne. The Lt.Col. continued along the road all the time engaging the enemy with fire from his own jeep. Having swept the whole area with close range fire he turned his jeep around and drove down the road again, still in full view of the enemy. By this time the enemy had suffered heavy casualties and had started to withdraw. Never the less they maintained intense fire on the road and it appearded almost impossible to extricate the wounded who were in a ditch near to the forward jeeps. Any attempt of rescuing these men under those conditions appeared virtually suicidal owing to the highly concentrated and accurate fire of the enemy. Though he fully realised the risk he was taking Lt.Col.Mayne turned his jeep round once more and returned to try and rescue these wounded. Then by superlative determination and displaying gallantry of the very highest degree and in the face of intense enemy machine gun fire he lifted the wounded one by one into the jeep, turned round and drove back to the main body. The entire enemy positions had been wiped out, the majority of the enemy having been killed or wounded leaving a very small percentage who were now in full retreat. The Squadron having suffered no further casualties were able to continue their advance and drive deeper behind the enemy to complete their task of sabotage and destruction of the enemy. Finally they reached a point 20 miles ahead of the advance guard of the advancing Canadian Division thus threatening the rear of the Germans who finally withdrew. From the time of the arrival of Lt.Col.Mayne his gallantry inspired all ranks. Not only did he save the lives of the wounded but he also completly defeated and destroyed the enemy.

Recommended by Brigadier J.M.Calvert DSO. This is the action that Mayne should have been awarded the VC for.

[Andreas]

My grandfather got the EK II (Iron Cross second class) for good service, that seems to have been quite normal at mid-war. He received the EK I for lying behind a wall, thinking that he had a few more moments to live with his four comrades when a Soviet assault on their position was underway. When the Soviet soldiers were close enough that he could hear their shouting, a defensive barrage came down on them. That is all he cares to remember about it.

The Ritterkreuz, at higher levels of command, was apparently often given for being a competent commander, not for personal bravery. I believe the same is true for the Eichenlaub zum Ritterkreuz. It is therefore not quite comparable to the VC, which AIUI is always given for personal bravery.

[Michael Dorosh]

What unit was he with, out of curiousity?

It highlights the inadequacies of the British awards system. Lieutenant Colonel D.G. McLaughlin was awarded the DSO for Clair Tizon, but McLaughlin was derisively referred to as "Mad Mac" by his troops; he wore a US steel helmet and was universally regarded as "shell shy", ordering deep bunkers built far behind his battalion's front line. But because he tactically handled the battalion well in one instance in Normandy, he won the exact same decoration as the above Lt. Col who didn't get the VC.

Would be interested in knowing what other awards said Lt. Col received also. Two bars to the DSO is no mean feat, just as the two bars to the MM were. Were the first DSO awards also for physical bravery, or for leadership?

McLaughlin was relieved at the end of October, though a semi-official (?) policy was for six month tours of duty for battalion commanders in action.

[ricky77]

Citations....

Distinguished Service Order

At Sirte on 12/13 December this officer was instrumental in leading and succeeded in destroying with a small party of men, many aeroplanes, a bomb dump and a petrol dump. He led this raid in person and himself destroyed and killed many of the enemy. The task set was of the most hazardous nature, and it was due to this officer's courage and leadership that success was achieved. I cannot speak too highly of this officer's skill and devotion to duty.

Recommended by Brigadier B.W.Reid.

1st Bar to D.S.O.

Operation "Husky", Sicily, On July 10th 1943 & 12th July 1943, Major R.B.Mayne carried out two successful operations. The first, capture and destruction of coastal defence battery on Capo Murro Di Porco, the outcome of which was vital to the safe landing of X111 Corps. By nightfall 10/7/43, SRS had captured three additional Btys, 450 prisoners as well as killing 200 to 300 Italians The second, the capture and holding of the town of Augusta. The landing was carried out in daylight, a most hazardous combined operation. By the audacity displayed the Italians were forced from their positions in masses and most valuable stores and equipment was saved from certain destruction. In both these operations it was Major Mayne's courage, determination and surperb leadership which proved the key to success. He personally led his men from the landing craft in the face of heavy machine gun fire and in the case of the Augusta raid, mortar fire. By these actions he succeeded in forcing his way to ground where it was possible to form up and sum up the enemy's defences.

Recommended by Colonel H.J. Cator MC.

Second bar to DSO.

Lt.Col. R.B.Mayne DSO has commanded 1st SAS Regt throughout the period of operations in France. On 7th August 44 he was dropped to the "HOUNDSWORTH" base located west of Dijon in order to co-ordinate and take charge of all available detachments of his Regiment and co-ordinate their action with a major airborne landing which was then envisaged near Paris. He then proceeded in a jeep in daylight to motor to the "GAIN" base near Paris making the complete journey in one day. On the approach of Allied forces he passed through the lines in his jeep to contact the American forces and lead back through the lines his detachment of 20 jeeps landed for operation "WALLACE". During the next few weeks he successfully penetrated the German and American lines in a jeep on four occasions in order to to lead parties of reinforcements.

It was entirely due to Lt.Col. Mayne's fine leadership and example, and due to his utter disregard of danger that the unit wasable to achieve such striking success.

Recommended by Brigadier R.W. Mcleod.

Third Bar to DSO.

On Monday April 9th 1945, Lt.Col. R.B.Mayne was ordered by the GOC 4th Canadian Armoured Division to lead his Regiment (then consisting of two armoured jeep squadrons) through the British lines and infiltrate through the German lines. His general axis of advance was N/East towards the city of Oldenburg, with the special task of clearing a path for the Canadian armoured cars and tanks, and also causing alarm and disorganisation behind the enemy lines. As subsequent events proved the task of Lt.Col. Mayne's force was entirely and completely successful. This success however was solely due to the brilliant military leadership and cool calculating courage of Lt.Col.Mayne who, by a single act of supreme bravery drove the enemy from a strongly held key village thereby breaking the crust of the enemy defences in the whole of this sector.

The following is a detailed account of the Lt.Col's individual action which called for both unsurpassed heroism and cool clear sighted military knowledge.

Lt.Col.Mayne on receiving a wireless message from the leading squadron reporting that it was heavily engaged by enemy fire and that the squadron commander had been killed immediately drove forward to the scene of the action. From the time of his arrival until the end of the action Lt.Col. Mayne was in full view of the enemy and exposed to fire from small arms, machine guns, sniper rifles and Panzerfausts. On arrival he summed up the situation in a matter of seconds and entered the nearest house alone and ensured the enemy here had either withdrawn or been killed. He then siezed a Bren gun and magazines and single handly fired burst after burst into a second house, killing or wounding the enemy there and also opened fire on the woods. He then ordered a jeep to come forward and take over his fire position before returning to the forward position where he disposed the men to the best advantage and ordered another jeep to come forward. He got into the jeep and with another officer as rear gunner drove forward past the position where the Squadron Commander had been killed a few minutes previously and continued to point a hundred yards ahead where a further section of jeeps were halted by intense and accurate enemy fire. This section had suffered casualties and wounded owing to the heavy enemy fire and the survivors were unable at that time to influence the action in any way until the arrival of Lt.Col.Mayne. The Lt.Col. continued along the road all the time engaging the enemy with fire from his own jeep. Having swept the whole area with close range fire he turned his jeep around and drove down the road again, still in full view of the enemy. By this time the enemy had suffered heavy casualties and had started to withdraw. Never the less they maintained intense fire on the road and it appearded almost impossible to extricate the wounded who were in a ditch near to the forward jeeps. Any attempt of rescuing these men under those conditions appeared virtually suicidal owing to the highly concentrated and accurate fire of the enemy. Though he fully realised the risk he was taking Lt.Col.Mayne turned his jeep round once more and returned to try and rescue these wounded. Then by superlative determination and displaying gallantry of the very highest degree and in the face of intense enemy machine gun fire he lifted the wounded one by one into the jeep, turned round and drove back to the main body. The entire enemy positions had been wiped out, the majority of the enemy having been killed or wounded leaving a very small percentage who were now in full retreat. The Squadron having suffered no further casualties were able to continue their advance and drive deeper behind the enemy to complete their task of sabotage and destruction of the enemy. Finally they reached a point 20 miles ahead of the advance guard of the advancing Canadian Division thus threatening the rear of the Germans who finally withdrew. From the time of the arrival of Lt.Col.Mayne his gallantry inspired all ranks. Not only did he save the lives of the wounded but he also completly defeated and destrayed the enemy.

Recommended by Brigadier J.M.Calvert DSO. DISTINGUISHED SERVICE ORDER and 3 Bars

39-45 Star, Africa Star & 8th Army Bar, Italy Star, France & Germany Star,Defence Medal, War Medal & Oak Leaf, Legion D'Honneur and Croix De Guerre with Palm.

Mentioned in Despatches .... 20/2/42

D.S.O. ... Middle East .... 20/2/42 Rank Lieutenant

1st Bar - Sicily .... 21/10/43 Rank Captain / Temp Major

2nd Bar - Normandy .... 29/3/45 Rank Major / Temp Lt. Colonel

3rd Bar - North West Europe .... 11/10/45 Rank Lt Colonel

All of the citations reached the same conclusions and described his qualities of superb, fine and brilliant LEADERSHIP along with his gallantry and courage.He won his awards with the SAS

[Michael Dorosh]

Heh, you list one award twice. The Oak Leaf on his War Medal is the insignia of the Mention in Despatches. Quite a man, though, and a nice rack, as it were.

Had he not been promoted so fast, his first DSO would probably have been an MC...