Dawg Bonz Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Sewer movement? Appears CMAK does not allow sewer movement! Can not find this option in the Scenario Editor. Only mention is Page 127 in the CMAK PDF manual regarding the Stealth Icon. I started to develop a CMAK strike force scenario "Operation Rat Hole". It would be Elite Desert Forces taking down perimeter security forces & capturing "HQ" hiding in a "Spider Hole". CMAK Grog questions: Would a "Spider Hole" = Sewer in game play? Could "Spider Hole" movement be a future CMAK patch? Thanks, Robert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Hey, you're right! I hadn't noticed that til now. I guess it went away along with human wave attacks, factory complexes, and other Russian Front-specific items. I believe the sewer movement in CMBB was included specifically to model the Stalingrad battles, where fighting through the rubble-strewn streets was particularly gruesome. I can't recall any Med theater fighting that would quite match that. I'd bet the manual was constructed off one of the middle Betas. There's also mention in the manual of the 'frame-rate counter', which I was under the impression was a Beta aid destined to be deleted before release. A 'spider hole' (as we all discovered this weekend) is a small covered pop-up hole, named for a certain hunting spider technique. It isn't often associated with a true tunnel system. If CM were to fashion a Vietnam War version of the game they'd have to think about modeling proper tunnel systems. [ December 15, 2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscano Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Without sewer movement, there goes my capture Saddam scenario idea! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 You can still play capture Saddam. Put a conscript platoon HQ in a shack and surround with the 4th Infantry Division. You'll get a pretty accurate representation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted December 15, 2003 Author Share Posted December 15, 2003 Thanks for the 'spider hole' definition MikeyD. I thought that was what it was based on. "I can't recall any Med theater fighting that would quite match that." I am certain tunnels existed in Italy & Africa in WWII. Seems like it could be easy to re-add as a part of CMAK in a future patch. (But then I am not a programmer) In no way do I think a 'spider hole' patch is a BFC priority. Sort of just noticed it while kicking around some map ideas. No big deal. "Operation Rat Hole" with Elite Desert Forces taking down perimeter security forces & capturing "HQ" hiding in a pile of rubble will work just fine. Mscano… "capture Saddam scenario idea"…. I hear you. The 4th ID already played out the real scenario. Regards from… Robert PS 'frame-rate counter' would be nice to see. Shift Y doesn’t work on my Mac? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 If there were tunnels in NA, they don't seem to have figured prominently in the fighting. I never heard of any. I think the same is true of Italy, though I am less confident in this case. Seems like trenches, bunkers, and sandbag emplacements will do for most developed defenses. Too bad about pillboxes... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Slappy ….. Conscript platoon HQ in a shack and surround with the 4th Infantry Division. You'll get a pretty accurate representation. Not going for "historical accuracy". I would give a low morale conscript HQ some fanatical elements and a get away jeep (no taxis modeled). Another suggestion was model scenario "Operation Rat Hole" in CMBB with sewers! Again, don’t know how a common the surrender phenomena are in BB but this is an idea for a semi historical scenario. The desert just has that wonderful plum of dust aura as the Elite forces swoop down to make the catch. Michael … Too bad about pillboxes... What’s up with CMAK pillboxes? "If there were tunnels in NA, they don't seem to have figured prominently in the fighting…" No I figured as much. I just thought leaving the ‘movement’ feature in CMAK as tunnel, underground passage, burrow, crawl space, cellar, excavation, mine, etc. ‘movement’ would be like not changing anything in the existing CMBB engine. Just an uneducated guess on my part. I am VERY happy with CMAK as is. Heck… the Italians had wine cellars for sure. My 88 yo father in law (WWII Medical Officer, in North Africa & Italy) was in several Italian wine cellars at owners request of course … after hostilities. Speaking of wine cellars… Ciao! Robert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Originally posted by DawgBonz: Michael … Too bad about pillboxes... What’s up with CMAK pillboxes?Going by what redwolf has posted (I haven't looked into this myself, mind), you can still nail them with 20mm autocannon. Unless you have a gentleman's agreement between players not to use those, it makes using PBs as part of, say, the Gothic Line pretty hopeless. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 NORAD PBs in CMAK! Thanks for the heads up Michael. "If there were tunnels in NA, they don't seem to have figured prominently in the fighting…" As noted before … accepted. This is not a "my life is ruined cause I can’t crawl in NA / Italian spider hole scenarios… complaint. I am VERY happy with CMAK as is. Still inquisitive wondering if allowing tunnel, underground passage movement in a future CMAK patch would require major computer work since CMBB allowed sewer movement. Anyone with professional computer programming knowledge know? Maybe I should post this in the Tech Forum? Thanks, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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