Le Tondu Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Scenario Designers, The varible bomb load bug is real and it can affect the playability of your scenarios in a real BIG way. Actually it makes your scenarios unplayable if they have an aircraft that has variable bomb loads like a Bf109 or a P-38. Does one side in your scenario have that type of aircraft and the other doesn't? Please remove these aircraft types from your scenarios if BFC won't fix this. Scenario Depots now have a real big a can of worms to deal with too. Which scenarios have these aircraft removed? Which don't? This is highly unfortunate because you (the scenario designers) weren't the ones who created this bug. How many scenarios have been made? How many man hours of work went into making them? How many PBEM games are getting tossed right now? How many turns wasted? In my opinion, the easiest way out of this mess it to just fix it, because its just too ugly a situation to leave it in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Calm down. It's not the end of the world, nor does it worry me a bit. Not very many scenarios HAVE any air support in the first place, let alone those specific models. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 Then it should be real easy for the designer to double check and correct then. Right? You see it is for those designers that I post this. Imagine playing a Large and long PBEM scenario and that bug happens sometime in the middle or near the end. So much for the scenario designer's hard work, eh? It just went out with the bath water. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 The more players that knows about this bug, the better in my estimation. Heck, I can live (like Sergei) with this bug not being fixed. I am being persistent because the greatest damage is done when people don't know about this bug and it appears to them. I am trying to save folks from investing a lot of time and effort that will just end up being wasted. Not a bad thing do to, don't you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I'm inclined not to worry too much about this bug--it's by no means a game breaker, anyway. The worst that happens is that a game features a few more bombing runs than it should, which slightly imbalances things but (especially given air support's tendency to target the wrong side) also livens things up. It's definitely not "unrealistic," since it's always possible that the air support came in with a couple more planes than expected. I'd love to see it fixed, but I won't stop playing CM over it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 As I understand it, this bug will only appear if all these conditions apply: 1)The scenario contains one of these aircraft 2)The aircraft has already dropped it's ordanance 3)The pbem game is saved, then reloaded Given all that, how many times do you think this bug will appear? The first condition makes it rare, the second (given AA defenses, weather and other parameters) makes it rarer still, and the third, if you are unfortunate enough to play someone who is willing to cheat, makes it so rare that it's almost impossible to quantify. I've been playing CM since '99, and have encountered aircraft maybe 2-3 dozen times (give or take). Out of all those games I may have saved and reloaded once, and it was only during a patch upgrade (which, BTW, there won't be anymore of in CMAK). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: As I understand it, this bug will only appear if all these conditions apply: 1)The scenario contains one of these aircraft 2)The aircraft has already dropped it's ordanance 3)The pbem game is saved, then reloaded Given all that, how many times do you think this bug will appear? .............I play extended PBEM games with my best friend. (We also play TCP/IP games on sundays.) Anyways, in the morning when I get the gamefile sent to me, I watch it and send it off right away. If I have to watch and then plot my turn, I plot as much of it as I can before I have to run and catch my bus. Then, when I return at the end of the day, my original plotting is still there and I finish my turn and return the gamefile. I do that regularly. I like to play a complete combined arms scenario where aircraft and AAA are a part. So for me, all three can easily be met. The problem is that I wouldn't know if the (non QB) scenario I'm playing has that type of aircraft in it without looking at it with the scenario editor. (Which, in my opinion is a type of cheating. It would be too hard not to see my opponent's OOB as well.) I am NOT pushing to have this be rubbed into the faces of the folks at BFC. I am filled with nothing but gratitude for their wonderful work. What am I lobbying for? I am lobbying for the poor bloke that doesn't have time to come to this discussion forum and be warned about this bug until after he has sent a PBEM game back and forth for more than 30 turns. I am lobbying for the scenario designer who has these type of aircraft in their scenario. I am lobbying for every Player so they can play this game with less suspicion of their opponent. Does the opponent have two planes or is he cheating? I am lobbying for there to be some kind of comment about this bug from BFC. I cannot understand why there has been none. My intentions are purely honorable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Maybe we need to take a few deep breaths and step back a bit on this one. Given the general trend of comments that I've seen coming from BFC I would be surprised if this gets fixed anytime soon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we at the end of the road on patches for the CMx1 series ? That being the case, maybe what we need to do is to draw up a list of what to do to *not* trigger the bug. There seem to be two broad categories: Head-to-Head and Solitaire. From Sergio's post I get the impression that the bug can be avoided in Head-to-Head by a simple gentleman's agreement not to resave during a game. I really hate house rules, but it's a simple one and I'm not sure we have a choice. I'm afraid it will have to be left up to each Tournament and Ladder as to how they address or avoid this problem. In all fairness I think it is important to make clear to those who play against the AI how to avoid this bug, if it can be avoided, because I suspect that more games are played solitaire than with animate opponents. I do not include myself in the last category, especially in the early morning. If it makes you feel any better, pay a visit to one of the Tiller game Napoleonic forums and ask about artillery, zones of control, and cavalry charges. A few extra wingmen circling overhead will seem tame by comparison. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Given the general trend of comments that I've seen coming from BFC I would be surprised if this gets fixed anytime soon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we at the end of the road on patches for the CMx1 series ? Unless a real showstopper comes out, and this one isn't, then you are correct. There seem to be two broad categories: Head-to-Head and Solitaire. From Sergio's post I get the impression that the bug can be avoided in Head-to-Head by a simple gentleman's agreement not to resave during a game.You can still resave during a game, since the first two conditions I mentioned must be met before saving in order for this bug to appear, and even then it won't show 100% of the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwxspoon Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Sounds like much ado about nothing to me. If you want completely scripted combat, set up a QB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 I can live with the bug. No problem with that. I ask again : If this happened to you after you invested a lot of time by sending back and forth PBEM files and you didn't know about it, how would you feel??? What would you think about CM then? In that situation, would it still be much ado about nothing to you??? I dare say that you would be more than a little pissed. That is exactly what I am trying to prevent --by getting the word out about this bug. Phillipe says he has seen comments from BFC about this? Really? Where are they? I'd like to see them. I've checked the four threads that talk about this bug and I have even checked the Tech Forum and there is nothing from BFC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The comments I was referring to were the comments about patches. Even if they were considering thinking about doing something about the reload bug it would be inappropriate for them to comment until they had run a lot of tests, not just to scope out the parameters of the bug, but to get a sense of what would be involved if they were to make any more changes to the code. If you take a look at that recent thread where everyone lost their temper you'll realize that the subtext is a certain reluctance to do anything else to the code lest the whole edifice come tumbling down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thank you for the clarification Philippe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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