Treeburst155 Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 There is an "invisible dust" phenomenon that occurs when a round impacts at the very end of a movie. The dust does not have time to generate. In the following orders phase, you have an invisible LOS blockage. By this I mean no dust is visible; but the LOS tool and arty target line show a block. However, we are targetting visible points in the orders phase so I don't think this is part of the problem. It could be that even very brief LOS blockages to the target point, due to dust, during the delay period, cause the arty to go haywire. [ December 07, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Well, in Lawngnome's case he tried to adjust. While an already underway barrage stays on target even if LOS gets broken by dust, you cannot adjust into the dust-blocked area, not even the same point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 If you adjust into a dust blocked area, you have not fulfilled the criteria for reproducing this bug. With the invisible dust, your LOS tool and arty targetting tool will both show a blockage. You just won't see the dust that causes that blockage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Originally posted by redwolf: I don't get it. Why should LOS to the same spot be blocked? Sure no dust in between? That's why I posted my experience in this thread, because I would call that a bug. It doesn't really matter to me what we call it, now that I understand what is going on. In hundreds of CMBB games I don't ever recall experiencing this Target Acquisition/LOS situation (although some of my PBEM opponents were obviously having trouble, he-he). I would suggest that anybody having their artillery fall off target, use the LOS tool first and then without moving the pointer/curser switch the FO to target (w/blue target line) that spot. IF your artillery falls off target, go back and check your target point with the LOS tool. I think you will find that it changed to "blocked" (even though there is no smoke or building debris), as it did in both of my experiences. I would add that the portion of the LOS tool that is now "blocked" is only a matter of a few meters, but that is all the program understands... IF LOS blocked, THEN arty. falls off-target, while in real life the FO would still observe rounds impacting in desired area. Sincerely, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 So? No LOS = off-target. We knew that. I don't get your point, sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Originally posted by redwolf: So? No LOS = off-target. We knew that. I don't get your point, sorry. I thought it was interesting that LOS can change from "good" to "bad" for no apparent reason, and the fact that it happened on two consecutive turns (the 2nd turn to re-adjust) might be an explanation for what others might be experiencing... but then, I could also be missing the point as far as "bug". Best regards, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 You are sure it is not what Treeburst describes, dust at end of turn, not yet visible but blocking LOS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Originally posted by redwolf: You are sure it is not what Treeburst describes, dust at end of turn, not yet visible but blocking LOS? If I am understanding Treeburst correctly: "...With the invisible dust, your LOS tool and arty targetting tool will both show a blockage. You just won't see the dust that causes that blockage." Then what I experienced is not what he describes, as no rounds fell in the target area, no smoke or building debris, and my LOS tool initially showed no blockage w/FO target line blue. ...So LOS and FO target-line are good in orders phase, but after watching rounds fall off target the next orders phase shows you now do not have LOS. Kind of strange, but at least I saw it with my own eyes, and now have an idea as to the cause of arty. rounds falling off-target. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 Hi Ken, Even if the cause of the haywire strikes is due to an LOS blockage that mysteriously occurs AFTER the orders phase but before the movie (during the turn crunch), we have no way of knowing WHEN that glitch will occur. If we can discover when it will happen we may be able to reproduce the bug at will, or at least avoid the bug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Originally posted by citizen: What we need is automatic adjustment of all strikes towards the aiming point (based on spotter experience and LOS to impacts)...I'd like to see a bit more discussion of this idea as at the moment it is my preferred fix as well. I'd like for the TacAI to at least try to put the shells where I tell it to. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Citizen's suggestion would be a nice arty characteristic to have; but I wouldn't go so far as to say it would FIX this strange arty behaviour some of us are noticing. We're talking about strikes that are wildly off-target when they shouldn't be. Even if they were self adjusting back towards the target point, the rounds have already been wasted. It's worth noting that I STILL have not been able to reproduce this behaviour. However, at least SOME of the posts to this thread were probably caused by the glitch. Eventually I think everyone will run into it. I don't think it is a very common occurrence. Just think how many arty strikes have been called in with CMAK so far. We have only a handful of complaints. The bug exists. I'm convinced of that now; but I'm not sure it's worth devoting any more time to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Treeburst155: Citizen's suggestion would be a nice arty characteristic to have; but I wouldn't go so far as to say it would FIX this strange arty behaviour some of us are noticing. We're talking about strikes that are wildly off-target when they shouldn't be. Even if they were self adjusting back towards the target point, the rounds have already been wasted.Yes, you're right about that. I shouldn't have given the impression that one thing was the other. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawngnome Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 This is all irrelevant in my case, I adjusted and the strike adjusted, but was still 250m or so towards me. No dust. Nothing blocking the way. I checked the target line and it was as green as ever. No explanation. My problem was the spotting rounds were dead on, 10m or so from the target, but when I adjusted my target the shells got all freaky and fell 300m off target right on my front line. Not good for business. Then I adjusted and they stayed all screwy. I had to cancel the strike and call another one in the same spot. THEN it fired OK. So I guess I had a problem with adjustment, not any invisible dust or stupid spotters. Has to be a bug unless the designers did this on purpose. If they did, I am never using artillery in this game again. That freaky strike lost me the scenario!! I never saw ANYTHING like this in CMBO or CMBB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Lawngnome, You're describing the bug. You have seen it. Your brave fighting men have died because of it. We who have seen this thing feel your pain. You are not alone. That's why we have this thread going. Hmmm....I was playing the German side when this happened to me. Has anyone had this happen while plotting Allied arty? I'm too lazy right now to check the thread for the answer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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