CMAK AAR -- Questions & Comments--Part 2 Posted!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I did notice in the demo that the tanks didn't converge on one road of advance but fanned out a bit to strike my entire line, after dealing with the defending tanks. While I was aware of the weakness of the AI on the attack this scenario made the AI look good. I was very impressed with the AI marshalling their PSWs into and along the wadi.

Either the AI was improved upon or the map was exceedingly well suited to it. I'm thinking both, very well done Rune.

[splooger]

I tried the scenario again as the Americans to see if the AI did any better but I got the same result: major victory and all I really did was press "end turn."

[Ligur]

As a disinteresting sidenote, the AI, playing as the defending US forces, knocked me around so bad my virtual hair dropped. PZIIIM vs Grant = I Should Have Found a Way To Get a Lot Closer.

Edit: I tried again, but didn't fare much better.

SPOILER! (as if people hadn't already tried the scenario).

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I was able to maneuver around 12 PZIII's to face off with 3 Grant tanks... From 200 meters... before the first shot was fired. The melee that ensued was mostly front vs front with some side shots. I used a ridge and some smoke to get that close. I even used the gamey "sacrifice a light tank to draw fire" (in this case the scout cars) to get free side shots on the Grants. Guess if I could even hit the Grants? No way. My tanks brewed up on the first shot very often though, and in the occasions my tanks were trying to flank the Grant crews displayed an uncanny knack of hitting a fast moving target with the first shot. I faced similar frustrating situations with CMBB often as well, I suppose nothing has changed and its just one of those days... In the end I was able to overcome the Grants but then had to face the Shermans with my virtually decimated force, which compelled me to surrender. Sigh. I have to try again

[ November 25, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Ligur ]

[Bnej]

Well, I've not been able to get above a Tactical Defeat in this scenario in the demo.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with those scout cars, I move them over the ridge and they die instantly.

I can't attack the american positions from hull down positions at long range, since the PzIII gun does nothing at that range. Their 75s on the other hand deliver death on my tanks.

I've tried moving tanks up the wadi, but then they're stuck in the middle of the field with tanks on either side so they'll get hit no matter where they turn. I get a bit closer with this approach, but still lose my tanks and the attack falls apart.

I'm pretty new at the game - my laptop has a Geforce Go which only just got drivers good enough tp play - and I just don't see how to get my tanks close enough to be effective against theirs. I think I can get my inf. up to the enemy, but then they'll be sitting there waiting in a big tank. Any tips from people who know?

Still love the game, I have my CM:AK/BB bundle on order now.

[s3333cr333tz]

I played this demo scenario with a friend, TC/IP. First mistake I made was not spending enough time REALLY looking at the contours of the map. In the end that came back to bite me painfully on the ass.

I think the key to this map for the Germans is the ridge on your left that flattens out near the road. This gives you cover against any armor the American player may have near the center of the map or oasis. In my game this was the avenue of attack I eventually chose, however it came a little too late. I had squandered some of my armor attempting to shoot it out from various positions. Some forward, in which they were heavily out gunned numbers wise and some from back on the first ridge. I never recieved any marders just 3 platoons of pzIII's forget the exact make, but they were all inferior to the Grants and Shermans at all ranges ;p

In anycase, I bumrushed him with all my armor around that ridge hoping to roll his flank and then go from there. Needless to say it failed and if it wasnt for a heroic effort by my last 3 panzers it would have been a massacre. Thanks to their brave last stand, in the end all my opponant had left was 2 shermans and some of his infantry. The battle actually came down to one last flanking attempt by a sherman. He rushed it over top of the ridglet getting side turret shots on my remaining 2 panzers. I anticipated this, and ran 4 or 5 squads to TRY and cut it off. My first squad to reach the sherman knocked it out, but it came 20 seconds too late. The sherman had killed one of my remaining panzers and immobalized the other which was attempting to reverse away presenting a side shot to the 2 shermans near the stone wall in the center of the map ;p

Dto the constraints of the map, further advance by my infantry would have been pointless and I surrendered saving the time his inevitable and unstoppable mop up would have taken ;p

I took HEAVY infantry loses trying to cross the ridge on my right side, I sent one platoon over the top there hoping to get them down into some cover there, but my opponant deployed minimum one infantry platoon and an ATG well forward there and he cut them to pieces before they could get under cover. Most of my MG's were decimated the moment I tried to sneak them into any prime firing position thanks in part im sure to how far forward he deployed on my right flank.

I sent one platoon up the wadi, and the balance on my left behind my advancing armors dust screen.

My consolation was that my wadi platoon eventually wiped out his left forward deployment but it didnt really save the day ;p

I think the battle would have been different had I gotten a platoon of marders but beggers can't be choosers I was just happy I got some armor to run that gauntlet ;p

All in all it was very fun, and im looking forward to see how the conclusion to this AAR turns out ;p

[synchro]

i think i was quite lucky in the Fruhlingswind demo. after a terrible start on my part, due to my not studying the terrain closely, i lost 2 PSWs in the centre of the ridge, with a 3rd KO'd by the Grant's Xfire - tho it did manage to cause the temple based half track to abandon before going up - and all 3 SPW/10s being torn to shreds at the <my> far right ridgeline [i just didn't realise how easily the allies could see my vehicles].

i arty'd the 2nd halftrack which i guessed left me with the 3 Grants and a AT gun at the temple wall. arty'd that, too, by the time i had positioned all 15 PzIIIs behind the ridgeline.

i used mortar stonk to take out the AT gun placed with the GIs on my right [it was well hidden until i got my recon troops forward enough to spot it.. but they had been slaughtered for this prize... only the plt HQ <hiding in the brush> got away with only one casualty].

so, with my PzIIIs ready for the off, & with at least 2 ATs and 2 75mm halftracks out of the way i figured 3 Grants should be easy. i think this was turn 11 or 12, maybe later than that? but the last PzIII plt took 3 mins getting into position [ i was being cautious after losing 6 vehicles to misjudging the terrain].

meanwhile, i used the central ravine to get a plt within 100m of the temple walls. i figured if there were any more ATs hidden then a quick charge closer might expose them but my 105s had done a good job of wasting one at least.

i sent that isolated recon platoon to sacrifice itself so that the armour would at least know of any more threats [ at this time i still believed there were only 3 Grants!]

i ordered the 3 Pz plts to go hulldown from left to centre ridge all at once... with 15 x 50mm L60 cannons roaring from hd positions they should easily deal with only 3 Grants, however tough they're supposed to be.

but within a minute one PzIII had hardly got a shot off when the crew bailed after taking multiple hits.

not so good. and what was worse there was def more than 3 AFVs. i could see 2 Grants and another that could've been a grant or a sherman AND an AFV icon. oh shee-ite... not good.

the only good news was that the minor inf charge toward the temple wall drew some of the Grants' fire for a short time and showed me that there wasn't another AT gun behind that wall.

i could see that one of the Grants was green. also good.

going on a bit here...

to sum up, using all 15 Pz was a good idea. they KO'd one, and caused the other 3 to bail [i believe the 5th vehicle retreated off-map when the reg HQ grant was KO'd]. i lost a 2nd Pz to the HQ grant but this was blasted apart by a Pz i shot forward to get it within 100 m [those 50mm shells were bouncing off! making the crews panic was the best i could do because my Pz really did pound them to no effect].

the same happened with the shermans that appeared from the road behind the wadi. but again such a mass of firepower, however weak the calibre at that range, caused a green sherman crew to bail out.

used fire and movement to get 5 Pz [now low on AP rounds] to move in and waste the inf defenders at the VL flag left and panicked the 2 shermans with fire on their flanks from my Pz left of the temple wall.

the remaining 2 shermans hiding in the cover of the orchard/trees eventually surrendered giving me a major victory.

but i believe i was incredibly lucky to only lose 2 Pzs to the Grants and with one of them retreating offmap. the early loss of the Grants meant i could keep the shermansfrom deploying and keep them under fire from along the ridgeline AND from their right.

lost a lot of infantry but it was a tactical use that allowed my tanks to get the range of the grants before they had to manouvre to get the 75mm's limited traverse in the right direction.

damn good demo.

as was the Line of Defence.

played the AI. thoroughly enjoyed it.

thanks

das

[dangerousdave]

Greetings, I'm new to this forum and to this game system (still waiting for my copy to arrive). But have been gaming for many years.

My first shot at this demo was a severe lesson in how to read terrain in this game. I gave up after less than 10 turns, burning hulks and dead troops everywhere. However...

On the fourth try or so as the AK, I finally managed a minor victory. I pretty much followed the strategy in the AAR on thewargamer.com, modified. I think a major victory can be had, but I will need to find more patience to get one.

Setup: I put one recon platoon and one PSW on the far right. This force was to be the first to advance and to attract attention. Feint right. The other two recon platoons were setup to go up the middle, down the wadi. I set them up to first advance to just below the ridge line and wait for the order to go over the top. I spread my MG 42s out to seek good overview spots along the ridge line. These things are not that much use in this scenario due to their lack of mobility. Maybe should give them a ride next time... The two FO's were set up to take positions near the middle of the ridge line, hidden until needed. Their officers set up to watch the progress and spot the enemy. My other three PSWs were set up to advance just below the ridgeline near the wadi, the plan was to have them sit and wait for possible shoot and scoot opportunities against soft armor.

The right side advanced into the brush using bounding overwatch. The other two platoons ran into the wadi, then using contact movement followed it to the exit point and sat and waited.

Meanwhile, as my armor reinfocements (with passengers) arrived, I sent them over to the left side to form up getting ready for a quick dash. The inf platoon on foot did the same (next time I would send this one up the wadi too because it took way too long to go by foot around the left and was very tired).

I tried taking potshots with SPWs at halftracks as they appeared. Shoot and scoot up to the ridgeline then backing down below it. I actually killed one of them, but lost all my SPWs fairly early on.

I used the mortar spotter to lay some smoke and readied my first charge. The smoke went a bit far. However, I ordered the charge anticipating it would land correctly. Therefore, I lost two tanks to opportunity fire. Next time I will be more patient .... In fact, it might be best to wait until all three platoons are available. I first sent two, then the third when it arrived.

However, the charge was pretty successful. Basically, I lined them up on the right side of the wadi, just hidden. Then, en masse, sent them on "move fast" to take up positions behind the little ridge just in front of the US position at the little house. From there, unload troops, organize, and get ready to take out the Grants. Using shoot and scoot, I'd have my Mk IIIs pop up to the ridge line (all at once) and take out Grants. I took out three quickly this way. The 50 mm gun can kill a Grant at this close range. Of course, I lost some tanks too, but not as many as I had trying this technique in a previous game from the back ridge.

With the third tank platoon, I sent one tank up the wadi. I would send two or three that way next time.

Once I eliminated the armor on the left (his right), I was able to take out that position and roll up the flank. At that point, I was able to bring the infantry up in the middle and shifting that from left to right. I found smoke again indespensable. In fact, all but one of my arty missions was smoke. The one that was HE had no effect. The fires started by enemy HE were helpful too.

The Shermans were a challenge, but once I did the flanking maneouvre, I was able to get side shots. Patience was key, as was shoot and scoot. I managed to end the game with 6 Mk IIIs left (one with gun damaged though). Many of the green US troops surrendered when I breached the line of foxholes behind the wall. If I can save a few more vehicles, I think a major victory can be had. I wiped out all but two US tanks. They had retreated over by the oasis. I would have had to make a very risky move to get them. Little did I know, they both had damaged guns....

Great scenario. I just hope the real game arrives soon.

[Schugger]

Downloaded the Demo, installed it and played my first CM game after several month. I missed CMBB entirely and have played the Demo once but never tried the full game (Booh! Hiss!). So what I knew dated back to the old times of CMBO. I could hardly remember when the AI has given me such a hard time as in the "Frühlingswind" scenario playing as Axis. Lost my PSW very early in the game but knocked out what appears to be two halftracks. Scouting by brewing up showed me a concentration of "M3?" tanks to my extreme left as well as two "Guns?" - I am lousy as a tank commander, something that will never change. My second experiance, which costed me dearly was that Infantry hits the dirt as soon as anyone farts at them, coward little Scheisserchens they were Something has changed about suppression since CMBO, I somehow liked it but at the moment, while I got my butt kicked royally by the AI I was not entirely happy of what was going on there, in North Afrika, at my computer screen. Scary.

When my tank reinforcements appeared, along with more cannon-fodder I thought it was time to reconsider my tactics a bit. My first tank platoon has duked it out with the "M3s?" for a few turns, without much harm done by or to any side, with the exception of seeing none effective penetrations, obviously another feature. On my extreme right flank, the enemy was in a forward position along with one "Gun?", an MG and some infantry, digger in and in a somewhat isolated position, still busy of pummeling the remains of one of my Aufklärungs-heinis platoons. The 105 mm spotter had a clear LOS to that position and I gave fire orders and ordered one tank platoon along with a Panzergrenadier platoon to take up position behind the ridge. When the first shells landed, my tanks and infantry were in position and I first ordered the Panzergrenadiers to cross the ridge and enter the brush behind it. On the far left my Panzers were ordered to cross the ridge as well to engage the "M3s?" in a firefight to hopefully prevent them from shooting at my precious infantry. All went well this time, but I lost a IIIm in the tank firefighter but the artillery killed the Gun. Now the supporting tanks on the extreme right crested the ridge and together with their armored comrades on the right flank I enfolds the M3s in their position. No matter how they wheeled and turned, one tank platoon was always able to get side shots and thus they were knocked out within five turns.

The game was a real mainliner, right from the start and it continued to be until the end. While I tried to deal with the Shermans hidden in the Oasis, they killed two of my tanks at point blanc range and it was two of the remaining Aufklärungs squads who succeed in killing them. It is still a highlight seeing tanks knocked out by infantry. In the end I got a respectable 64 to 36 win - but I lost the follow up scenario "Last Line of Defence", so I don't think the learning process is over.

Great game, a must-have and will check out the stores as soon as possible.