Hand to hand combat?

[Cabe Booth]

I know I read about this somewhere, maybe in my CMBB book I have here. But I did a search here and couldn't get anything. How is hand to hand combat represented in the game? I know it has to be and when trying to run up and clobber an enemy...what is the move order to ensure it happens?

I have around 6 or 7 mortar squad without ammo and I really need them in the fight holding off some troops getting into my perimeter. I made one run into a building to start mixing it up, instead he stopped right on the enemy and they just well.... sort of hung out in the building together until her was shot to death. But in another game I saw a guys squad march into a house I had a flamethrower in and heard the thunk as he was rifle butted. The was even a wave where the guy said "take that you @$$!!&*!!!!" and my unit was dead.

So can I get a clarification and a "how to" on hand to hand combat?

[dieseltaylor]

There is no how to, the game decides whether it occurs or not. Mortar crews having no offensive arms would be more likely to surrender than fight so it will be quite a gift to your opponent.

CM series tries to prevent commanders sacrificing troops in John Wayne heroics.

[Bannon DC]

You need to be within 20m. Crews won't do well, especially if they are still lugging their weapons around.

CMAK represents crew defensive weapons better. I generally see mortars taking pistol shots within 50m or so. Sometimes to the effect of blowing their cover. CMBB crews usually will end of dead or captured very quickly.

Also, the more men in the squad the better. Mortars are a 3 or 4 man crew (with pistols at best). Them against even a depleted infantry squad with grenades, SMG and rifles is a losing bet. Get your crews out of the fight.

[John Kettler]

When it gets in close and nasty, you'll definitely see pistols come into play. In ROW IV, my Italian platoon leader got a Glisenti kill on his British counterpart as that worthy attempted to seize the trench. Range? Maybe a meter! Unless absolutely forced into it, do not use weapon crews or AFV crews in hand to hand. They count double if lost or taken prisoner, you see. Also, they start ammo Low.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Joachim]

German troops closing in often shout "Nahkampf" (ie close combat). So it is in the game.

To stop players from sacrificing crews BFC made crews more expensive and probably more fragile. It would be interesting how they compare against half squads low on ammo.

I guess close combat with crews after the perimeter is overrun is an outlier in CM which suffers from the model focussing on improving more likely scenarios.

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by Joachim:

German troops closing in often shout "Nahkampf" (ie close combat). So it is in the game.

Just a question: Where do you have that from? I don´t find any mentioning of that in any my original german FM or tactics books (in particular HDV 130/2a), which are plentiful. When it comes to breaking into (Einbruch) an enemy position during an assault, then "Nahkampf/close combat/hand to hand combat" would be rather "automatic" and not to be ordered by the squad (ect.) leader. It´s left to the individual soldier to finish off his foe with a hand grenade, a shot from his carbine or spiking with his bayonet if the situation for actual close combat arises. A simple "Hurra" (hooray) when storming the enemy postion would the only thing to do, unless stealthieness is required, like low vis combat (forest, night, patrol) where on occasions "close combat" is ordered before the attack even started. That´s mainly to preserve "surprise" and sometimes soldiers would even be ordered to unload their rifles and mount their bayonets to prevent shooting and raise attack spirits. But that´s rather special circumstances (surprise attack at night or in forest ect.)

So the "normal" procedure would be: Advance to "Einbruch/break in" position, about 100 to 50m or less before the enemy position. Squad leader evaluates situation, observes neighbouring friendly groups attacking, observes fire of friendly heavy weapons firing on the break in enemy posititon, observes enemy, decides for the break in (not close combat), tells squad of the decision, ordering to mount bayonet or to prepare otherwise (readying hand grenades ect.) and then... leading by example jumps forward with his squad following, shouting "Hurra". Well, that´s the way by the book and counts for those situations for going attacks and with beforehand planning. Everything beyond that would normally be out of control usually, which means close/hand to hand combat could occure at every thinkable opportunity more or less unexpectedly. I think CM only does play the appropiate audio for attacking units?

So the "Nahkampf" shouting of german infantry in the game is rather fantasy, although I understand that´s made to indicate what´s happening (in the game) as is many of the audio in the game. It would be very interesting to see an improved CM game that has more realistic personal audio for the various combat situations, although CMBB and CMAK already do a good job at it. I see a necessity to deal with the BORG problem in the game before though. Another topic.

The crew defensive weaponry and close combat with crews definitely needs some overhaul. Hate to see crews that helpless in close combat situations, although everybody knows that "Crews" normally are "specialized" infantry men and have the basic capabilities (training) like normal unspecialized infantry. Also hate to see snipers using their "personal arms" when they´re out of ammo and when there´s no necessity to shoot at nearby enemies at all (better stay hidden). Better use covered arcs and hide command, although the AIP does not have the brains to do the same unfortunately.

[Joachim]

To be more specific:

"German [pixel] troops [in CM] closing in often shout "Nahkampf" (ie close combat). So it is in the game."

00033500.wav and 00033502.wav in the German CDV edition of CMBB.

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by Joachim:

To be more specific:

"German [pixel] troops [in CM] closing in often shout "Nahkampf" (ie close combat). So it is in the game."

00033500.wav and 00033502.wav in the German CDV edition of CMBB.

ok, so you´re refering to ingame audio only.