Biltong's Campaign Rules

[willmontgomery]

I think he means, when you "cash in" an attached unit for an upgrade, you can cash it in for the points it cost to buy, not for the (usually larger) number of points you rolled up at the time that you bought it. In other words, any points you lost when you originally bought that attached unit stay lost when you "cash in" that attached unit for an upgrade. Hence (interpreting what Biltong wrote), the new points you just received for attached units are added to the points you actually used for the attached unit you are cashing in rather than to the total number of points that you rolled up back when that unit (which you are now cashing in) was originally purchased.

[Snowbart]

Originally posted by willmontgomery:

I think he means, when you "cash in" an attached unit for an upgrade, you can cash it in for the points it cost to buy, not for the (usually larger) number of points you rolled up at the time that you bought it. In other words, any points you lost when you originally bought that attached unit stay lost when you "cash in" that attached unit for an upgrade. Hence (interpreting what Biltong wrote), the new points you just received for attached units are added to the points you actually used for the attached unit you are cashing in rather than to the total number of points that you rolled up back when that unit (which you are now cashing in) was originally purchased.

Thanks willmontgomery, that makes total sense! Appreciate the help!

Snowbart

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

...

Not sure i understand this last statement. Could you please explain? ...

Battle 6 - you roll up 60 points for Attached units and decide to buy a PSW 231 at 51 points. At this stage all 3 Attached Unit slots are full. Battle 7: you roll up 50 points and decide to upgrade your PSW 231. You now have 51 + 50 = 101 points to buy a replacement with (not 60 + 50 = 110).

Hope this example helps to clear it up.

[Snowbart]

Thanks Biltong, I read you loud and clear!

In the midst of my secong game now, about to teach these Russkies a lesson!

[Seahawk-vfa201]

anyone tried the 103 latest beta patch?

I have been hit from the Armor bug. Any news on how armor does behave with the latest patch? I'd like to fight last Kiev battles without the bug and go on with the campaign

[ April 19, 2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

anyone tried the 103 latest beta patch?

I have been hit from the Armor bug. Any news on how armor does behave with the latest patch? I'd like to fight last Kiev battles without the bug and go on with the campaign

I haven't tried it, but judging from the thread it looks like it's been solved. The final patch should be out soon.

BTW - Have you started looking at 42 yet?

Some of the new appendixes in 42, such as Delayed Armor Replacement, could easily be applied in 41 as well, but I have no idea how that will impact Biltaid.

Would it be possible to make something like that optional (in both 42 and 41) without spending weeks programming?

I want to make most (if not all) new rules into optional appendixes, so that playes can choose the mix/complexity that they prefer.

The new post-patch version of 42 (v1.2) will have the SE option and I plan to include an option where, after Counter/Immediate attacks, the Axis get replacements, but they arrive later – if at all, for 43 South.

All of these, the players will be able to impliment from the start, in 41 South, if they want to.

[Schoerner]

Sorry, guys if this was discussed already, but i have one problem with my first battle-setup ever:

The computer (BiltAid) picked for my Task Force Luftwaffe Infantrie.

In the QB the AI chose Infantrie units only.

So far, so good.

It is an 1250 pts Axis assault and i'm allowed to spend:

Infantry: 525 pts

Vehicle: 480

Armor: 300

Arty: 390

My infantry-part of the battle group already costs

~320 pts.

So i only have 525-320=~ 200 pts free for spending on infantry, right?

And what should i do with the rest?

I only have infantry-units in the support-units.

So i can't buy anything else, right?

I have nothing against such an Impossible Mission, but i only want to make sure, i do understand things right.

Am i right?

[ April 19, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ]

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Schoerner:

Sorry, guys if this was discussed already, but i have one problem with my first battle-setup ever:

The computer (BiltAid) picked for my Task Force Luftwaffe Infantrie.

In the QB the AI chose Infantrie units only.

So far, so good.

It is an 1250 pts Axis assault and i'm allowed to spend:

Infantry: 525 pts

Vehicle: 480

Armor: 300

Arty: 390

My infantry-part of the battle group already costs

~320 pts.

So i only have 525-320=~ 200 pts free for spending on infantry, right?

And what should i do with the rest?

I only have infantry-units in the support-units.

So i can't buy anything else, right?

I have nothing against such an Impossible Mission, but i only want to make sure, i do understand things right.

Am i right?

Heya Schoerner, in the CMBB QB you always put UNRESTRICTED in the initial paramenter then when you buy the Task Force you select units as per the rolled division and type and points.

Note:

In battle printouts, the actual value for Axis Nationality and Division Type should be Unrestricted in CMBB and the value on the sheet should only be used when purchasing units or when setting up the dummy QB to get auxiliary units. Some new players are forgetting to do this and end up in the problem you describe.

Your Battle Group is fixed. The values you get in BiltAid for the Task Force is in addition to your battle group.

From the allotted points I guess BiltAid told you you ended up in a Large Battle where notmal points to be spent for Task Force units are multiplied x2, x3, x5.

From your point I take it is a x3 Large Battle set-up.

What I do (and the patch solves the ammo bug, thanks BFC) is to load a map (Map Add ons) with my Battle Group already imported. This way I just buy Task Force units.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Biltong:

BTW - Have you started looking at 42 yet?

Some of the new appendixes in 42, such as Delayed Armor Replacement, could easily be applied in 41 as well, but I have no idea how that will impact Biltaid.

Would it be possible to make something like that optional (in both 42 and 41) without spending weeks programming?

I want to make most (if not all) new rules into optional appendixes, so that playes can choose the mix/complexity that they prefer.

The new post-patch version of 42 (v1.2) will have the SE option and I plan to include an option where, after Counter/Immediate attacks, the Axis get replacements, but they arrive later – if at all, for 43 South.

All of these, the players will be able to impliment from the start, in 41 South, if they want to.

Biltong, I downloaded current version of 42 south: modifiers and rules that depend on the year (and that do appear already in 41) are easy to put in, with relatively little effort. Enough to check the year in addition to month and week to apply the correct modifiers to the rule.

For the optional (new) rules it would be domain of the initial set-up where the user could be presented with options to switch on/off [and stick for the rest of the campaign though]. Those have to be implemented from scratch which - of course - involve more time.

This said: BiltAid covered rules can be extended to 1945 rapidly if that just means different modifiers and results, otherwise it is all brand new implementation (hence time to deliver will increase).

If agreed we can go in two separate steps: extend BiltAid-as-it-is-now validity from just 1941 to the whole period 1941-45, then start with the new stuff.

[ April 19, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Schoerner]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

Heya Schoerner, in the CMBB QB you always put UNRESTRICTED in the initial paramenter then when you buy the Task Force you select units as per the rolled division and type and points.

Thanks for your fast answer, Seahawk.

Yep, this seems all clear to me.

From the allotted points I guess BiltAid told you you ended up in a Large Battle where notmal points to be spent for Task Force units are multiplied x2, x3, x5.

If i'm remembering corretly, a window appeared and told me about that, but i don't cared about it. I don't even know what a 'Big Battle' is.

Isn't the multilpier already included in the purchase points given by BiltAid?

If no, where can i find the modifier?

From your point I take it is a x3 Large Battle set-up.

How do you come to that conclusion? (i don't have a clue about that multiplier)

What I do (and the patch solves the ammo bug, thanks BFC) is to load a map (Map Add ons) with my Battle Group already imported. This way I just buy Task Force units. [/QB]

Thanks for that tip.

I already set up (and renamed ) my Battle Group units.

But now i don't know, how i get them into my QBs, if i can't find a premade map, with the parameters i need?

Edit:

I already found the solution: Editor -> Map Editor -> generate random map -> save with units.

Quick Battle Generator -> import map with units.

I guess this is the usual way of the Biltong-profs, if no premade maps are available, right?

[ April 19, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ]

[Schoerner]

Seahawk, back with another question.

How should imported units be treated?

I mean, they don't cost any points.

If i import the (always the same) Battle Group, as you suggested (works great ) how should the points be handeled?

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Schoerner:

If i'm remembering corretly, a window appeared and told me about that, but i don't cared about it. I don't even know what a 'Big Battle' is.

Isn't the multilpier already included in the purchase points given by BiltAid?

If no, where can i find the modifier?

Yes, the multiplier is included and just from the points you have I guessed it was 3 times what you would have gotten in a normal battle.

I already set up (and renamed ) my Battle Group units.

But now i don't know, how i get them into my QBs, if i can't find a premade map, with the parameters i need?

Indeed, without premade battle it is more convoluted. You would have to have QB generate the map, buy your task force only, save the map, load it in the editor and enter your battle group only to have exact experience, ammo and names.

[ April 19, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Schoerner:

Seahawk, back with another question.

How should imported units be treated?

I mean, they don't cost any points.

If i import the (always the same) Battle Group, as you suggested (works great ) how should the points be handeled?

BiltAid only gives you the points for the Task Force. Your Battle Group is a given. Its point though are taken into consideration to build the map size and force size for the Allied computer buyed units.

So the imported Battle Group cost does not get subtracted from the Task Foce rolled points.

This way - with imported Battle Group - when buying units it is even spedier: you rolled, say, 180 points for armor? That is the exact limit when you will buy Task Force armor in the QB (up to 180 points, that is).

I favor the Editor in that it allows me to track down the exact experience for each unit rather then having random and different from battle to battle. I find it more *realistic* and allows me to count on my veteran units and know exactly who is going to be conscript :mad: next battle.

[ April 19, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Yeknodathon]

Seahawk

Thanks for your work. Can you explain a little more about how to install and start the lastest version of BiltAid? I'm only able to start the application by right clicking the file and selecting javaw.

Alex

[ April 19, 2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Yeknodathon ]

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Yeknodathon:

Seahawk

Thanks for you work. Can you explain a little more about how to install and start the lastest version of BiltAid? I'm only able to start the application by right clicking the file and selecting javaw.

Alex

Hi Alex,

in SuperSulo site the Read me file is now included. In previous pages I cut & paste the relevant information anad a short How-To on BiltAid. You better find them (I think page 8) and read them to have a clearer picture of BiltAid.

If you have Java installed on your machine then the command is:

java -jar BiltAid.jar

On OS X it starts also by double clicking BiltAid.jar on the Finder.

[Schoerner]

Seahawk,

thanks again (and a lot) for your fast replies.

Dare i to say, that i still have another (hopefully the last) question?

Computer already bought the support-units. Check.

I wrote them down. Check.

Say, a Kompanie Infantrie.

Say such a support Company is containing an 81mm Arty-spotter, which i want (but i have too less points to buy the whole Kompanie).

Am i allowed to tear the Company apart and buy only the spotter, or do i have to stick to the exact same unit-formations, that the computer gave me?

I guess the right way is only to order the whole Kompanie without tearing it apart, right?

Oh, i can't wait to start my first (night assault on a town and open ground without any vehicles) battle.

Even now, i'm feeling already more familiar with my already renamed Battle Force units (all my friends joined freely the Kampfgruppe ), than after a normal finished CM-battle.

I'm sure this Campaign-modus will lift CM to a whole new dimension.

[Yeknodathon]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yeknodathon:

Seahawk

Thanks for you work. Can you explain a little more about how to install and start the lastest version of BiltAid? I'm only able to start the application by right clicking the file and selecting javaw.

Alex

Hi Alex,

in SuperSulo site the Read me file is now included. In previous pages I cut & paste the relevant information anad a short How-To on BiltAid. You better find them (I think page 8) and read them to have a clearer picture of BiltAid.

If you have Java installed on your machine then the command is:

java -jar BiltAid.jar

On OS X it starts also by double clicking BiltAid.jar on the Finder. </font>

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Schoerner:

Seahawk,

thanks again (and a lot) for your fast replies.

It just happens I am online

Dare i to say, that i still have another (hopefully the last) question?

Computer already bought the support-units. Check.

I wrote them down. Check.

Say, a Kompanie Infantrie.

Say such a support Company is containing an 81mm Arty-spotter, which i want (but i have too less points to buy the whole Kompanie).

Am i allowed to tear the Company apart and buy only the spotter, or do i have to stick to the exact same unit-formations, that the computer gave me?

I guess the right way is only to order the whole Kompanie without tearing it apart, right?

Right: no break allowed. You may buy what is available as a whole. And even if it is 1 point too much, then it is one point WAY too much!

but read the note on buying units with left points from the rules. The note concers what the QB generates:

Note 12 - Generating the real battle:

"If you have points left after buying all the Task Force Offerings in a category or if you have points left, but not enough to buy a specific unit, you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list.

In other words - buy as many Task Force units as you can from the generated units, but if you have points left - you win - you can buy what you want from the QB list. Remember: You can/must also buy individual teams such as MG teams etc that might be part of a platoon to use up your points.

If you have points left in a category, but there's no generated unit or a unit on the QB list cheap enough, then you do lose those points. For infantry this will normally be just a couple of points, but for armor it can be a bit more.

If you do not use a pre-generated list of units (with the QB) then spendpoints without breaking units in the proper category. Stick to rarity <= 40% a modifier will sometime allow to buy whatever you want whatever rarity as Berlin would give you prority for the incoming battle.

Oh, i can't wait to start my first (night assault on a town and open ground without any vehicles) battle.

Good luck\, man.

Even now, i'm feeling already more familiar with my already renamed Battle Force units (all my friends joined freely the Kampfgruppe ), than after a normal finished CM-battle.

I'm sure this Campaign-modus will lift CM to a whole new dimension.

It truly does that.

PS

I suggest using the new patch: it fixes the bug ammo wih the Editor where imported units, ie the Battle group, were always at FULL ammo.

[ April 19, 2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Snowbart]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

anyone tried the 103 latest beta patch?

I have been hit from the Armor bug. Any news on how armor does behave with the latest patch? I'd like to fight last Kiev battles without the bug and go on with the campaign

Hello Seahawk. I was wondering the same thing myself, is it time to try out the new beta patch? I hear it will fix the ammo problem with importing units with the editor, but I don't want to mess up anything. Also what is this Armor bug you mentioned?

The darn Ivan's seam to be fighting a bit fiercer than I'd expect for low quality, unfit units. Most of my units are outta ammo, dammit! :eek:

Snowbart

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

anyone tried the 103 latest beta patch?

I have been hit from the Armor bug. Any news on how armor does behave with the latest patch? I'd like to fight last Kiev battles without the bug and go on with the campaign

Hello Seahawk. I was wondering the same thing myself, is it time to try out the new beta patch? I hear it will fix the ammo problem with importing units with the editor, but I don't want to mess up anything. Also what is this Armor bug you mentioned?

The darn Ivan's seam to be fighting a bit fiercer than I'd expect for low quality, unfit units. Most of my units are outta ammo, dammit! :eek:

Snowbart </font>

[Schoerner]

I just finished my first BiltAid BCR battle and it was really exciting and great fun.

Lost the whole PzIIC crew due to a catastrophic explosion in the last minute, but on the other hand, i had more than enough luck: the PzIVE only became abandoned...

The game really get's another dimension with this campaign.

No comparison to single scenarios!

Biltong, Seahawk and all the others, that made this possible: THANK YOU!

What stays is the hope, that BFC soon will see the potential.

[Snowbart]

Hey Seahawk,

Cool, I will wait for the official patch then.

What the heck is Kiev Urban Chaos?

Just finished battle #2 in the campaign, thanks in much to your assistance. Total victory the first battle, minor victory the second.....and man was it tough. But even so most of my squads have gained experience, with only one squad at 9 pts for exp....now just a lowly green unit

I think I'm getting the hang of this: it doesn't take 4 hrs to set the next battle up now

Happy Easter,

Snowbart

[Snowbart]

At this pace pace it will take 758,000 hours to complete the war!!!! I've got a feeling I'll never get that far...............

But this frustration lies in the fact that these rules make the game so much more interesting.

Too bad there just isn't enough time.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Yeknodathon:

Okay, I've installed and run the original BiltAid, no problems. Where do I need to install the new file (BiltAid.sit?) and how do I access the command line to run

java -jar BiltAid.jar

Apologies, I'm of little brain for these things...

Alex

Hi Alex, if you have run the first BiltAid succesfully then you have a working Java installation alreay.

The the .sit file is a Stuffit compressed format. You have to use Stuffit Expander to get to the files it contains. There should be two files in the archive: A ReadMe and BiltAid.jar.

The ReadMe contains info on how to install Java on a Windows machine (OS X comes with it already) and some info on how to use BiltAid and some history of development.

My additions are the new features at the beginning of the file, the rest was the status Pterk left BiltAid to cross other battlefields...

BiltAid.jar is the - now - self-contained BiltAid program.

For the command line you have to launch a terminal window.

On OS X BiltAid starts by simply double-click on BiltAid.jar .

I do not know whether that works on Windows as well, most probably you have to use the comman line.

[ April 20, 2003, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[SuperSulo]

Looks like almost everybody likes BCR... Check this out:

http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612228964