fantatical troops

[scubasteve1233]

I've had this game for a couple of years now and i read in the manual about fanatical troops. I read that they do it randomly and it doesn't tell u when their doing it. My question is is it possible to tell and has anyovdy really noticed a difference?

[JasonC]

Oh you can definitely tell. They just won't go to pinned or below, no matter how much fire hits them. They still lose men, but they never duck. It is especially noticable when e.g. an MG or gun goes fanatic and keeps firing into a storm of stuff coming back.

[K.A. Miles]

Can vehicles and tanks go fanatic?

[securityguard]

HQ's seem to embrace fanaticism much more than whole squads. I've seen 1 guy, with just a rifle, take a barrage of rifle fire at close range and continue to fight. It's probably just sheer luck that it's worked out that way, where I've seen HQ's get it more than squads.

It's REALLY obvious when it happens, however. Your men throw out a ton of ammo and barely react to incoming fire. They don't necessarily act on their own heroicly, they just absorb the elements almost invincibly.

[CobaltTiger]

I think vehicles can go fanatic. I'm pretty sure I had a fanatical panther last night. That or he was extremely lucky.

The panther was veteran experience, and it singlehandedly destroyed a platoon of T34s and a platoon of T34/85s over the course of the game. The six T34s had a total of one round fired in return. It was pretty much one shot one kill on all of them, at ranges from 200-500m. The panther missed twice vs an armored car at about 800m but otherwise I don't think a single round was off target the whole game. It also managed to rack up 23 infantry kills and capture a Russian officer.

It was somewhat awe inspiring. :eek:

[JasonC]

Being missed by one round facing tanks halve of which can't hurt you from the front and the other half of which need to hit one plate from close to medium range, is not fanaticism. It's just a thick front plate.

[Nemesis Lead]

Cobalt,

I am not sure if vehicles can be fanatic. However, the way to tell might be to have numerous penetrations and crew casualties and the crew does not leave the tank or get shocked. It would reload and fire normally.

Of course, if the tank is "knocked out," there would be no reason for the crew to stay on board..... A fanatic crew would probably not "abandon" a still functioning tank (unless it lost so many crewmen that it could not operate the tank). In CM, I don't think I have seen a crew take MORE than 50% casualties and stay in the tank.

Does anyone know for sure about fanatic vehicles (e.g., a CM designer)?

Fanatic troops are a great touch in CM. I have had individual squads turn the tide of battalion-sized fights (e.g., a fanatic HMG holds up an infantry advance near the end of a game and time runs out). While this hurts me as much as it helps me, it is always fun to see.

[ May 01, 2006, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: Nemesis Lead ]

[CobaltTiger]

Well, I did say perhaps it was just lucky. I've certainly never had a vehicle make me think it was fanatical before. But when I have a unit singlehandedly save the day three or four times and with unerring accuracy, I start to wonder. Especially the way my luck usually goes.

Of course a panther is going to win against T34s most of the time Jason. I've done panthers vs T34s on both sides of the coin plenty of times and I know how things are usually going to turn out.

The point is that for whatever reason, this was the single most deadly panther I've ever had. Veteran crews miss a signifigant amount of the time even under 100m. This tank had two misses very early game while fast moving but otherwise never missed a shot.

We all know that point where both tanks point the barrel at each other and you wonder who is going to shoot first. You hope it's your guy and you hope he doesn't miss. This is the only tank I ever had that not only fired first every time it was in that situation but hit and killed the target so that it never fired back.

That highly unusual speed and accuracy is what made me think it might be a fanatical unit. Not the fact that it won battles it should have.

[Cannon-fodder]

Cobalt - I think that fanaticism is just a moral modifier - it means they simply refuse to go below 'pinned'. It doesn't have any effect on the way the unit fights, they just seem to suck up a ridiculous amount of firepower because they never get up and expose themselves as they rout.

[CobaltTiger]

Cannon-fodder, if you're right that it's just a moral modifier I must have just been using up all my luck in one battle. Perhaps the game was just making it up to me for my PzIV getting brewed up 5 seconds into the game because I got a little careless checking LOS during setup.

Regardless of it was luck or fanaticism, that panther still got a commemorative screenshot. Usually when I put a panther into close range against T34/85s I get a dead panther, not a platoon of dead T34s without them firing a single round.

[MOS was 71331]

I believe the word you're using is "morale," not "moral."

[MeatEtr]

Basically whenever you find yourself thinking, "Damn, it's taking a long time to kill this unit!" or "Wow, I can't seem to pin that unit down for an assualt!". Odds are your up against some fanatics. Scenario designers can increase or decrease the chances of units of becoming fanatical in the editor.

It's not all that rare either, I run into it about every other couple games or so. I swear though, they seem to live longer too, they soak up loads of ammo sometimes. Maybe some kind of a survival bonus, I don't know.

[l.cassidy]

Originally posted by Nemesis Lead:

Cobalt,

I am not sure if vehicles can be fanatic. However, the way to tell might be to have numerous penetrations and crew casualties and the crew does not leave the tank or get shocked. It would reload and fire normally.

Of course, if the tank is "knocked out," there would be no reason for the crew to stay on board..... A fanatic crew would probably not "abandon" a still functioning tank (unless it lost so many crewmen that it could not operate the tank). In CM, I don't think I have seen a crew take MORE than 50% casualties and stay in the tank.

I can report this episode that occourred to me some months ago with a Stug that went fanatic,

or berserk or whatever: it simply refused to give up and kept on returning fire no matter what.

* (note: it happened in CMAK, though) *

I was playing the U.S. attacking German A.I.

I usually give the AI some experience bonus so this Stug had a high-end crew, Vet or more.

It was holding a small rise of the ground and was standing behind a small patch of scattered trees. My attempts to take it out with a couple of Stuarts engaging it head-on lead to the loss of one the abovementioned Stuarts.

Time to switch to Plan B.

Being near the end of the game and with the enemy infantry mostly dispersed/suppressed, I rushed 2 flamethrowers and a engineer squad towards the tree patch and 2 bazookas and my remaining Stuart towards its right flank to engage it with flank shots.

The flame/engineer team was mostly intended as a diversion to keep the Stug busy while the

designated killer team (Stuart & zooks) was to whack it from the flank.

One of the flamers never made it to the trees while the other two did, although rattled to death.

In the meantime the Stuart and zooks team reached the designated flanking position (I don't remember the exact distance, but it was well within bazooka range, I'd say about 150m).

The flamethrower managed to hose the Stug twice before being routed by the Stug's return fire

while the engineers never managed to lob a satchel charge and never recovered from their "pinned" status.

And here comes the interesting part: the Stuart and bazookas began putting round after round

into the Stug's side. Not half-assed "partials", they were all "side upper/lower hull penetrations" of which 2 or 3 by bazooka hits.

Luckily, one of the first hits immobilized the Stug so it didn't pivot to face the Stuart &

zooks. Anyway, that monster threw in the towel only after having absorbed about a DOZEN

penetrations plus the 2 initial bursts by the brave flamethrower.

Never, ever saw a tank behave with such fanatical determination despite being in the worst possible situation. It continued to fire at the targets in front of it for a good half of the turn AFTER the immobilization, at least until there were enough crewmembers alive to operate the gun and MG.

Though, I can't recall how many crewmembers were left when they finally decided to call it a

day and bail the tank. Stupidly I haven't saved the turns, either.

I'll never know if it was a crew that went fanatic or a "Elite" TC with a +2 morale that wanted very badly to add the Oak Leaves to his Iron Cross...

Regards,

Cassidy

[Jack Carr]

Originally posted by Nemesis Lead:

Cobalt,

I am not sure if vehicles can be fanatic. However, the way to tell might be to have numerous penetrations and crew casualties and the crew does not leave the tank or get shocked. It would reload and fire normally...

I have seen this happen in games. A tank takes a round and a crew casualty and even when things aren't looking very good, the crew continues to fire the main gun at the enemy tanks. And all of that when the tank has a status of panic or broken.

I'm not sure if this is a tanks way of being fanatical. I would lean more towards there being no other option but to keep shooting back until order in the vehicle is restored. Is this the games way of modeling the tank driver being hit? Not sure...but it sure is fun to watch!

[ May 03, 2006, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Jack Carr ]