Brigadier Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I tend to maneuver my AFV's around on HUNT for the entire battle , unless of course there is a fair distance from set up to the area of ops. I am quite fearful of overriding the TacAI into shooting at a "maybe" target , when the individual tanks seem to have the best idea of their situation at hand. I think an "auto TacAI" shoot and scoot tactic would be good , where you simply select a target , hit a hotkey .. the tank takes a single shot and moves to where IT thinks is the best hull down type position/location.... or maybe it already does this .... I need to take a pill and go and have a lay down... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I like to use shoot and scoot to fast move up a few meters then reverse after one shot. The "scoot" part of the order will do a reverse automatically if the facing of the tank calls for it... It is a very useful manuever. Allows a tank to engage in a turn and be sure that at the end of that turn it will be in cover again (unless dead).... -Sarge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigadier Posted April 21, 2003 Author Share Posted April 21, 2003 Hang on a tick! :eek: In order to do what you just said, which is in effect a pop-up type attack from the reverse slope of a ridge , you have to target first then move. If you are on the blindside of a ridge , how do you target :confused: Although I like the tactic, I must say. What happens though if your tank decides not to backdown (thus not reversing). I think what we need is a scoot-shoot-scoot maneuver which would allow you simulate this pop-up type attack quite confidently! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I find this command utterly useless except to do one thing: If you're setting up an armor assualt with tanks against enemy armor from different flanks, time one of your tanks to "shoot and scoot" forward . . .not in the hopes of actually hitting enemy armor, but to distract his turret from targetting your flanking armor. Make sure you time it so that the enemy tank is sure to "lock on" to your "shoot and scoot" tank FIRST. Otherwise, "shoot and scoot" is likely just a waste of AP. Also, there have been a lot of threads posted on this topic, you will find a plethora of info if you do a search on it. Hope this helps. [ April 20, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Ive had mixed success with it. Today I used it with success with T34/76 to take potshots at the flanks of my opponents big cats. I had 2 KV-85s on other side of map which he was respecting a bit more. Also be wary of using it with TDs...make sure the angle you come in at is within the arc of the gun on the TD. Ive made that mistake and usually you end up with a dead TD. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergerbitz Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I've been having fairly good success with S&S lately. I'm not sure if it's a byproduct of the 1.03c patch or not -- but S&S works dandy now. I tried to use S&S with v1.01 and 1.02 and had no success at all. The tanks had the "scoot" part right, but would fail on the "shoot" part. They would sit still and get whacked. Now, they crawl over the rise, pick the target, shoot and duck back out of sight. I kept two Tigers pinned with four T-34/76s by popping up and whacking them from all angles. I couldn't penetrate the Tigers' armour, but I kept them occupied. Eventually, the Tigers' guns were knocked out and the crews bailed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Rommel Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I use it to good effect with this tactic...I will move my tanks into cover behind a building so as to be out of sight of the enemy or have them behind a dense wooded area..I will use this as an ambush area..when a enemy AFV or such is detected I will use the shoot and scoot to order it to move from behind the building or wooded area to engage the AFV or what have you and then scoot back into cover behind the building or woods.Even if it does not destroy the enemy it will at least slow him down a bit to deal with that threat or go around it.So it has worked for me in this way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I've only used the S&S command if I'm certain the quality of my tanks is inferior to the opposition. Since I play most of my games as the Axis in Mid-Late war settings my Big Cats have no need to use S&S even against the IS-series. Of course, this works best with the faster tanks anyways. I've had reasonable results when using the long-gunned PzKpfw III's. It doesn't work too well with Tigers On the flip side of the coin, a nice little counter to S&S users is having AT assets on overwatch with firing arcs that aren't too wide. Anything from ATGs, TDs, or tanks. As soon as the scheming bast***d pops his head up he gets a taste of an '88 or somefink. Also, even small arms fire can limit the success of S&S, IMO. Button the tank up and the tank wastes precious seconds trying to find the target. It'll either slither back to where it came or expose itself by allowing it to be acquired by another tank's gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I think it is the best improvement of the CM series. The hunt command was my favourite in CMBO but tanks stayed in position after contact. And one thing was for shore then….that turn someone will loose his tank. With the S&S command you are able to conduct a perfect ambush and pullback before the enemy can return fire or even now where it came from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Otherwise, "shoot and scoot" is likely just a waste of AP. I disagree. "Shoot and Scoot" is the perfect cure for C.S.T.S or Cowardly Soviet Tanker Syndrome. Many of a flank attack has been spoiled by the Soviet tank withdrawing too quickly and firing it's shot while on the move, which makes accurate just about 0%. The Shoot and Scoot command makes the tank stand still to take it's shot. Which can make all the difference between a perfect ambush and a spoiled one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0tten Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I think it is quite useful in a. Town tank engagements Where you pop out of an edge, fire, and go back into cover with your tank. But only to use if you suprise the enemy b. Ambush through hilly terrain with Stug's from flank I used this in several scenarios with my Stug III's to go to a shooting position on the top of a hill (best with partial cover) directly aiming to the flank of an enemy tank group. While the T-34 turned their turret and fired one shot to nowhere my Stug's fired and hit some T-34. Then they went in cover. Now I attacked with my main armored force from the front of the T-34, getting their attention. And now I repeated the Stug's action.... T'was just an example (and I dont know if its good or not) but in general I use Shoot n scoot for surprising flank attacks where I want to come back to cover quickly.... PS: Im no tactic grog at all...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGav Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Shoot and scoot is ideal with the Soviet IS and ISU heavies to keep the tanks out of fire while reloading. Plus the aforementioned benefit versus cowering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 ive only used it once, and had mix success with it. I find them good for really small armored cars and half tracks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Brigadier: In order to do what you just said, which is in effect a pop-up type attack from the reverse slope of a ridge , you have to target first then move..........What happens though if your tank decides not to backdown (thus not reversing). No target line is needed. Once your tank stops, it will pick a target....use an armor cover arc if you are only interesting shooting tank targets. The upside of this command, as opposed to the hunt-reverse combination, is that your tank will always scoot after its one shot. If no targets are immediately available the tank only pauses about 5 seconds or so then does the scoot. A very safe armored manuever really. The only dangerous way to use it is to have the scoot be 90 degrees from the tanks facing. Then there is time sitting still and turning....that'll get ya killed in a high threat environment. Why I use it as a shoot and scoot(reverse) command. -Sarge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Nippy: Otherwise, "shoot and scoot" is likely just a waste of AP. I disagree. "Shoot and Scoot" is the perfect cure for C.S.T.S or Cowardly Soviet Tanker Syndrome. Many of a flank attack has been spoiled by the Soviet tank withdrawing too quickly and firing it's shot while on the move, which makes accurate just about 0%. It isn't that is doesn't work, it's more that there are several other more effective and lethal ways of dealing with soviet tank "cowardice". Jagdwyrm said 1.03 makes it more effective, I'll give it a whirl with the latest beta and see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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