A few thoughts and questions

[Charlie_SB]

Hi all,

I've got a few questions and thoughts mainly about CMBB. I really love the CM series and play it a lot but there are some things I just can't figure out.... here goes.

-Last night I spent 2 hours making a map for a static operation.... I forgot to start a new operation before making the map and thus the map is for battles or quick battles only :-( Anyway I can get the map to work with an operation?

-I usually play MP-operations, static. We set them up quick battle-style where both players get a fixed amount of points for each battle to shop for. It's pretty gamey but if we play normal operations we'll end up killing each other because someone get better tanks, troops, terrain... coffee or whatever. Now, my problems:

-Why is meeting engagement not an option for operations?

-Why are my reinforcements bunched up at the start of each battle? It takes 30 minutes just to sort out each platoon of infantry and that is time I don't wanna spend (Yeah, we use too much points..but we like it that way). What's wrong with just lining them up platoon for platoon?

-When playing as the attacker in a static operation I usually can't place reinforcements in the front line, fine. BUT, I can tell the guys up there to hide, change rotation... but not to get back in the building which they magically left during the fighting pause. What's the idea of this? -Hmmm, since I have a few minutes of quiet I'd better carry this big machinegun and place it in front of the building so the enemy are sure to kill me straight away in the first minute of the next battle...... I frequently lose a platoon or so to this kind of random troop dispersion. Is there anything I can do to improve my ability to place my troops?

...and some other stuff I would like to see.

-I would like to choose the number of smoke rounds shot in each turn (direct fire). I guess I could make a pause for 50 secs and then shoot one, but then it might be too late. This could apply to the amount of HE rounds fired as well. Maybe as a 3 level rate of fire dialog.

-I would like a dialog asking if I would like to use explosives when using close range area target for infantry. I mean, the tanks get to choose whether or not to employ the main gun.

-I would really like to watch all the action phases in a battle as one long sequence in the end. Is there any way to do this?

-When are we going to get graphically represented full squads? Will that be possible with the new engine? I'm really getting use to the 3 men squads but I would kill to see 400 little 3D men do a human wave assault

That concludes my questions for today.... Sorry if I have asked questions debated before...

-C-

[Moon]

Pretty much *everything* has been asked before, but no need to be sorry

- No, you cannot swap battle and operation maps, sorry. I *think* that there is a third-party map making tool out there which allows you to "copy" maps into CMBB battles or operations as you like, not sure though? Somebody else might be able to answer that.

- Because the three options for operations are "generic". You can make a meeting engagement out of a static or advance operation quite easily, depending on map sizes, troops and so on.

- Agree, there could be more organization. Personally, I prefer reinforcements bunched up than strung out because that way they are not mixed with "old" units, but some more organization would be useful indeed. Not sure if it's something Charles can fix for CMAK.

- Yes, what you can do is move the front troops back before the end of a battle. You are only restricted in placing/moving those troops that are furthest at the front. BTW, these guys don't get supplies either, so it's a good idea to consolidate your positions in any case and move your frontline to the rear somewhat. It's what a real-life commander would do as well in a lull.

- Anything that gives the player more control over individual units is a two-edged sword when you look at the big picture, that's why we are very careful about adding this kind of stuff. A reasonable request can quickly turn the simulation upside down when the player gets so much control that he will be able to move a whole battalion over the battlefield as if it was an elite SWAT team. In the specific example you give - the TacAI has control over how many smoke rounds will be fired. It depends on a number of things, i.e. if the initial shot missed the target point and by how much. Within the mere 60 seconds of one game turn we found this to be a good compromise between player micromanagement and TacAI "chaos".

- When combat gets that nitty-gritty, I think it would be difficult to order your men to resist the temptation to use whatever they have to fight off the enemy at point-blank range.

- Yes, I'd love that, too. Charles tried to code it, but it's turned out to be way too involving with the current engine. Isn't there a third-party "movie viewer" out there somewhere for download?

- Besides hardware and software requirements, there are gameplay/interface issues with showing every single man on the field. If individual soldiers will be displayed in the new engine depends on if we can overcome these obstacles (without being forced to limit the scope of the game too much).

Hope this answers your today's questions

Martin

[Redwolf]

"Mission Mapping" in the mapping tool which lets you generate CM battles. It's used by the CMMC campaign. I don't think it can read a map which is already in CM, but I could do that if there is enough demand (I am not the author of Mission Mapping, but tinkering with it for other projects). That could also do a semi-automatic conversion from CMBO to CMBB.

The PBEM helper does the movie thing, but of course it pauses a little between the minutes and it can only work for PBEM, no other savegames (because CM computes combat from scratch for savegames other than PBEM moves - bad feature for bug reports BTW).

[Charlie_SB]

Thanks for a mighty quick response and good answers! I hope there is such a movie viewer around, that would be very cool. I commented a few of your answers below.

- Because the three options for operations are "generic". You can make a meeting engagement out of a static or advance operation quite easily, depending on map sizes, troops and so on.

Hmm, ok. It just seems that the player set as the attacker does not get to place units as close to the front as the one playing as the defender. Other than that we have a perfect meeting engagement.

- Agree, there could be more organization. Personally, I prefer reinforcements bunched up than strung out because that way they are not mixed with "old" units, but some more organization would be useful indeed. Not sure if it's something Charles can fix for CMAK.

Maybe selecting a HQ while pressing another key (ctrl) would select the whole platoon. That would make it a lot simpler. If this is already in the game I will have to kick my own behind...

- Yes, what you can do is move the front troops back before the end of a battle. You are only restricted in placing/moving those troops that are furthest at the front. BTW, these guys don't get supplies either, so it's a good idea to consolidate your positions in any case and move your frontline to the rear somewhat. It's what a real-life commander would do as well in a lull.

Ok, in the current operation I'm playing I have the possibility to place troops all the way back in the starting position OR in a small box further forward. The troops from the previous battle cannot be moved at all, they do however receive supply. We are currently playing 60 turns so you do have the time to move the troops. It's kind of a dangerous thing though, since the other player can place his troops in the very forward line. An assault at the start of the battle will be much harder for me to stop if my troops are moved back. Since I'm only holding one of four objectives, I'd rather not back off too much. I don't know if there is some sort of stacking limitation that cause troops to be placed in the middle of open ground or outside a building at the start of a new battle. Maybe thinning the lines a bit might prevent this.

- In the specific example you give - the TacAI has control over how many smoke rounds will be fired. It depends on a number of things, i.e. if the initial shot missed the target point and by how much. Within the mere 60 seconds of one game turn we found this to be a good compromise between player micromanagement and TacAI "chaos".

Ok, I just got a bit scared when my lone PzIV shot 6 rounds of smoke (out of a total of 8) just to block a suspicious patch of pines. One would have been plenty. But fair enough I understand your concern.

- When combat gets that nitty-gritty, I think it would be difficult to order your men to resist the temptation to use whatever they have to fight off the enemy at point-blank range.

Yes that's true, but that wasn't really what I was objecting to. In my case I was trying to do a little recon by fire to flush out any troops hiding in a patch of trees. Seems a little weird to chuck your nice pack of explosives just to see if there might be a half squad hiding among the bushes. Again this is something I can live with though. I can split my squad so that only half the explosives are wasted and then use this squad as point recon. I can also move back a little and then fire at a range of 31 meters

You guys seem to have a good community going here... I'm glad I finally took the time to do some reading and posting. The thread with the collected useful posts is just great.

Thanks!

C

[Moon]

All good points. As for selecting platoons, double-click (left mouse button) on the HQ will select the entire platoon (and "attached" teams).

Martin

[Sergei]

Originally posted by redwolf:

"Mission Mapping" in the mapping tool which lets you generate CM battles. It's used by the CMMC campaign. I don't think it can read a map which is already in CM, but I could do that if there is enough demand (I am not the author of Mission Mapping, but tinkering with it for other projects). That could also do a semi-automatic conversion from CMBO to CMBB.

"Mapping Mission", doncha mean? There's a handy way for this (handy if you know how to use Paintshop Pro, anyway): take screenshots of the CM map editor, then combine those and load it up as an underlay to MM. Now it's easy just to copy the features from the underlay, and then export it to CMBB. At least easier than using grid paper!

[manchildstein (ii)]

to get the reinforcements organized, i break them down into platoon-sized groups, then space their flags (entry points) out. it's not a cure-all but at least it's a slight workaround.