Cross of Iron

[Michael Dorosh]

Incidentally, living parts of the movie is an interesting experience. I had a slight personality clash with a senior NCO in my regiment. At a later time, a highly placed officer came in to my office to tell me that basically he had a lot of respect for me, didn't agree with the NCO in question, and not to be discouraged, etc. He was clearly uncomfortable because he knew he shouldn't be talking about a sr. nco that way to a corporal, but felt enough - I don't know if the word is affection, but it may be apt - for me that it was important for him to say what he was saying. I immediately thought of Col. Brandt and Cpl. Steiner.

It would be hard to encapsulate all of the facets of such a relationship in a two hour movie; Heinrich had a hard enough time putting it into words in several hundred pages of a novel. I don't blame him. "Favoured son" status creates all kinds of tensions, especially with martinets like Stransky. I've seen my share of that personality type, and I think the movie handles fairly accurately some of the dynamics involved, even if it isn't able to articulate fully the motivations of the characters. In the end, we're left to fall back on our own experiences to fill in the blanks. Having experienced a little bit of favoured son status myself, it's easier to relate to the movie. (I;ll add that my own perceived status is based on pure longevity, not on physical bravery or saving anyone's life).

[Aco4bn187inf]

Any American war movie made at that time can probably be regarded mainly as Hollywood's reaction to the Vietnam war, not WWII. I'll bet it's more about the US veterans who threw away their medals in protest, than any historical German view of the iron Cross. Just like the TV show MASH was really a comment about Vietnam, not Korea.

[Colonel J Lee]

Hey guys,

I have two movies to commend that are very good:

The Lost Battalion (WWI). Private-Ryan like battle scenes and good story. A real surprise (not well known, but very well done it appears).

"Downfall". This one is about the fall of the Third Reich and the last days of Hitler in the bunker. This is an impressive film. The main actor, Bruno Ganz, has a distinguished acting career and is AMAZING as Hitler. He looks very much like him, too. It's all in German with subtitles as the actors are all German.

Neither film is 'perfect' in my opinion (what film is?). However, I believe most of you on this forum will find them very engrossing.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

The closest we've seen in the movies is The Blue Max. George Peppard is also seen as an opportunist and a medal-hound - necessary for drama, I suppose - but the mixture of nervousness and gratitude at his investiture is real (and probably the limit of Peppard's limited acting range). They even had the Kaiser's gimped hand correctly portrayed IIRC.

But they had the wrong anthem - correct tune is "God save the Queen" with a German text. Guess the correct melody would disturb some people.

Regarding the "tin" - as long as you don't own it, it is worth a lot. Once you have it, there are several possibilities:

a) You discover it did not change you - is it really worth so much as you thought before?

You show it off everywhere - making you ridiculous.

c) You wear it with silent pride - which will probably earn you the most respect. Yet case a) might still apply.

[Pfc Driscole James E]

Originally posted by Crinius:

Why only films from the western point of view?

--Does this one have English Subtiles? [untertitle: Englisch]?--

http://www.amazon.de/Befreiung-Teil-1-5-6-DVDs/dp/B0007TFJDM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/028-1918957-7098906?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186557771&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Morgengrauen-noch-still-Teil-DVDs/dp/B000CFX4UG/ref=pd_bxgy_d_text_b/028-1918957-7098906?ie=UTF8&qid=1186557771&sr=8-1

--This one is available here as

"The Dawns Are Quite Here"

[David I]

Aco4Bn187 hits it right on the head. Vietnam era and post Vietnam era American Films about other countries' armies reflect alot of American attitude of the time, not about the time they are portraying.

One of my favorite WWII movies from the German perspective is "Night of the Generals", great story, huge (let me repeat that HUGE) cast. I love the German corpral that explains to his girlfriend that he got the Iron Cross 2nd Class

not because of anything he did, but because he was the only survivor of his company when it got over-run by the Russians. (See paragraph above).

Great war/detective movie. Peter O'Toole's role is awesome.

DavidI

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Here's another WWII film that hardly ever gets a mention but is a classic (IMHO) in terms of it's anti-war message. Too late the hero starring a very young Michael Caine & Cliff Robertson. It was Altmans 3rd film in a series of war films he made in the 1960's to early 70's and I'm sure it reflected the times with its anti war theme carrying a strong message regarding the Vietnam war.

Regards

Jim R.

[HeinzBaby]

'To Late the Hero'...I concure, thats a classic!.

Caine made two others worth a look at:

'Play Dirty' and 'The Eagle has Landed'

Both good solid war films made during the 70's when we were surounded by rubbish like 'Battle of the Bulge' and "The Great Escape' to name a few...

My opinion anyway

[Baron von Beergut]

No one here mentioned the "sequel" to Cross of Iron. It came out a few years later with Richard Burton playing Steiner. Only two actors from the original movie are in the sequel, Kruger and Anselm. Anselm gets killed in the opening scenes and Kruger toward the end. I thought the sequel sucked but liked the original. I was stationed in Germany when it first came out and saw it in a theater there. They were so proud of it that everyone got a program guide as you went in. Wish I could find it now. It was around 10 pages written in German. It said how it was a joint German Brit film effort and was supposed to be the most expensive German made film up to that time. Then goes on to list how many rounds of ammo, how much film blood, concrete, film, etc was used in the production. Had outtake photos and bio's of the main players and Peckinpah.

I wasnt crazy over Stalingrad although it did have some good scenes. I havent yet seen Winter War, but would like to if I can find it. Another from the German view was The Misfit Brigade based on the Sven Hassel books. I recall Oliver Reed was in it but dont know who else. It wasnt all that great either. Would have been nice to have one of Willi Heinrich's other books made into a movie. One I think was called Cresendo of Doom and took place in Czechoslovakia at the tail end of the war with totally different characters.

[Michael Dorosh]

I know that Richard Burton (I kid you not) played Steiner in a movie called Breakthrough, which took place on the Western Front as a sequel to COI. From what I understand (and I saw it only once, like, 20 years ago so my memory is mostly what I read in a book) it was Godawful.

Heinrich's book was Crack of Doom. Would have been too weird to have two books become Avalon Hill boardgames!

[Baron von Beergut]

yes, thats the one I was calling the sequel, I couldnt remember the name. I was stationed in the DC area when it came out and you're right, it sucked. I had really wanted to see it and had a heck of a time finding it after I heard it was being made. What a disappointment...

But the 1st with Coburn was decent enough if you dont get bothered by some errors.

[Michael Dorosh]

It's funny to note that in the book, Steiner is in his mid-20s. Coburn was a good Steiner even if far too old for the original conception of the character (he really made it his own, though, so the age is a bit irrelevant), but Burton was completely mis-cast no matter how you look at it. Yikes.