Recon

[abneo3sierra]

I am hoping someone out there has an idea to help. I cannot find in the manual or so far in experience an order to make soldiers/vehicles NOT fire..I usually would prefer having a small recon screen in front, whose mission is to track,and maybe set up an enemy force for an ambush with friendly forces, especially if my force is the "weaker"one. This keeps being spoiled however by my recon troops opening fire..is there any way to make them advance TO contact, then advance FROM it, so they stay just out of sight,and track a larger force?

Thanks in advance if anyone knows a trick to help, or if there actually is something I am just overlooking.

[JasonC]

Give them a covered arc that is short, shorter than where you expect any enemy to be.

As for the move order, move to contact will have them halt when they get LOS or take fire.

If you use "move to contact and hide", and are in any kind of concealment terrain, they will drop and the enemy will often lose them. On the other hand, their own sighting is degraded while hiding. But you can just unhide the following turn.

If you want to move a bit closer, sneak works fine, especially in any kind of concealment terrain. Keep the short arc, too. A hide at the end waypoint is optional (for the balance of the minute they stop, for the enemy to lose them if they saw movement).

Keep in mind that an enemy also using short covered arcs may be able to see you, without you drawing their fire. Or seeing them, if they are in better cover and you are moving etc. Move to contact won't halt in that case, because the enemy is being stealthier than you.

HQs with ? or +2 ? bonuses also help, as does higher unit quality and smaller teams. Snipers get yet another bonus - all, on the issue "how far away can I been seen?" Keep in mind, though, that nearly everything can be seen if it moves over open ground in sight of the enemy.

You can use short "run" moves to cross small scraps of open, going to sneak or move to contact and hide inside cover, to "be lost" again. The enemy will see a flag at the last known location, but won't track you further as you reposition etc.

[abneo3sierra]

Great answer and thanks. Just to clarify, I had wondered about the short arcs after I posted, but thought the book says they can overrule that if it seems to be a threat.

I like the other ideas with the movement.

Thanks for the speedy reply. It is great that there is alot of activity on this forum, it was a selling point to myself for the game. I'm glad it was.

[Ted]

Yes the AI can (and does) over rule the covered arcs.

The quality of the troops depends a lot on this.

In my experience veteran and crack troops almost always hold there fire until something enters their arc, green and conscripts usually start shooting way to soon.

[JasonC]

Conscripts cannot use covered arcs, period. The only ways to get a conscript squad to not fire are to order it to hide (which only works while stationary), or to leave it in dead ground, without LOS. (Or, get it shot to the point of panic, then it will "save its ammo", lol).

Greens can use arcs, and will generally hold their fire when they have one. The exception is when they take fire themselves, they become more likely to fire regardless of arc.

For me, it is SOP to set 180 degree covered arcs with ranges dependent on the infantry type and role (attacker or defender e.g.), right at the first turn. SMG infantry uses 80 meter arcs, for example - the ammo would never last otherwise. German 2 LMG squads I typically set to 150 meters on defense and 125 meters on offense, to outrange PPsHs slightly but otherwise save the limited shots for when they count. Rifle heavy infantry with 45-60 shots can use arcs as long as 250 meters on defense. Etc.

The main reason I do it, though, is ammo conservation, making sure the shots really tell. Avoiding being spotted is a secondary consideration. The main one is, don't tickle them at long range into cover, they will just rally through it and your ammo will not. If you shoot something with squad infantry fire, kill it.

[abneo3sierra]

Originally posted by Ted:

....

The quality of the troops depends a lot on this.

In my experience veteran and crack troops almost always hold there fire until something enters their arc, green and conscripts usually start shooting way to soon.

That is pretty realistic then.

[abneo3sierra]

Originally posted by JasonC:

Give them a covered arc that is short, shorter than where you expect any enemy to be.

As for the move order, move to contact will have them halt when they get LOS or take fire.

If you use "move to contact and hide", and are in any kind of concealment terrain, they will drop and the enemy will often lose them. On the other hand, their own sighting is degraded while hiding. But you can just unhide the following turn.

If you want to move a bit closer, sneak works fine, especially in any kind of concealment terrain. Keep the short arc, too. A hide at the end waypoint is optional (for the balance of the minute they stop, for the enemy to lose them if they saw movement).

Keep in mind that an enemy also using short covered arcs may be able to see you, without you drawing their fire. Or seeing them, if they are in better cover and you are moving etc. Move to contact won't halt in that case, because the enemy is being stealthier than you.

HQs with ? or +2 ? bonuses also help, as does higher unit quality and smaller teams. Snipers get yet another bonus - all, on the issue "how far away can I been seen?" Keep in mind, though, that nearly everything can be seen if it moves over open ground in sight of the enemy.

You can use short "run" moves to cross small scraps of open, going to sneak or move to contact and hide inside cover, to "be lost" again. The enemy will see a flag at the last known location, but won't track you further as you reposition etc.

Just wanted to say thank you. It works well. Against the AI, almost too well. But it is an interesting tool to play with and I will experiment some more.

[RockinHarry]

I have very best results with those methods as described by JasonC AND using small HQ units as reccon units. Small HQ´s have the benefits to be of small size (2 to 4 men), have binocs, are not affected by morale penalties for beeing alone and out of contacts with higher HQ.

Complete No Goes are split squads, which I had repeatedly panicking and surrendering when beeing detected by the enemy at close ranges or coming under fire.

Also depends upon your selected reccon task (finding enemy and/or combating the enemy if necessary), but my HQs are always up front, no matter if alone or backupped by additional cover units.

In the offense these small HQ sections (2 men) are perfect for finding firing positions for heavy MG´s. The slow moving HMG´s then can occupy the firing position once the quick moving HQ has checked it for LOS before. This method works particularly well in closed terrain, where LOS can not be detemined easily just by looking at the map, or finding those keyholed spots where you can put your support weapons without fearing too much enemy return fire. This is also how it was all done in german army of WW2 (reccon detachments finding perfect firing positions, before weapon units move finally in)

[dieseltaylor]

Useful thread.

[Antman]

And if you didn't know:

Shift-X toggles whether you view all covered arcs or just the arc of the currently selected unit. Very useful.

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by RockinHarry:

Complete No Goes are split squads, which I had repeatedly panicking and surrendering when beeing detected by the enemy at close ranges or coming under fire.

Off course that counts mostly for lone split squads that have no contact to platoon HQ.

[VonWebb]

holy tamale! great thread and a huge help, it's such a deep game. just restarted rebooting into Classic macOs9 to start playing CMBB again, the CMSF forums and upcoming games gave me the itch again, especially after they did confirm that eventually a MACosX version will be out for CMX2 series. wow, can't stop playing CMBB again... enjoying it more than ever.... i think i was often too hung over when i attempted it in the past.. ouch, it can make your head hurt...

[abneo3sierra]

Thought to update this a little bit. The PSW- series of armored cars, I have found to be terrific in this area. hull down, they have been able to sit on the reverse slopes and listen/watch, and have been great at racing forward in flat areas with the "fast move"command, when judiciously combined with "reverse" I have found them to be terrific fast forward "cav" type scouts..have lost a few, but war is hell, as the saying goes, and have avoided a handful of potential ambushes with this tactic.

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by abneo3sierra:

Thought to update this a little bit. The PSW- series of armored cars, I have found to be terrific in this area. hull down, they have been able to sit on the reverse slopes and listen/watch, and have been great at racing forward in flat areas with the "fast move"command, when judiciously combined with "reverse" I have found them to be terrific fast forward "cav" type scouts..have lost a few, but war is hell, as the saying goes, and have avoided a handful of potential ambushes with this tactic.

sounds very much like you applied real world tactics as described here:

Reconnaissance

[abneo3sierra]

Originally posted by RockinHarry:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />....

sounds very much like you applied real world tactics as described here:

Reconnaissance </font>