Biltong's Campaign Rules

[Joachim]

Originally posted by zukkov:

i'm in the 4th battle now. it's a meeting engagement, but at night(visability 200 meters). 3000 points! all inf for the russkies again, but this time they have several ampulemets(sp) and have knocked out 3 of my tanks! and i still haven't id'd any of the damn things yet. i know it's them though cuz fires keep springing up and i can hear that mechanical clicking noise they make. but the worst part is the time for the computer to "think", including the battle computation takes 5 or more minutes. anyway, i'll post an aar for the 3rd and 4th battles soon...

Make damn sure you concentrate your tanks and suppress any inf in sight with all guns blazing. Leave the target picking to the AI. Do not stop the advance cold, but use speed to hit it in the flank or rear (ampulomets and MGs are slower, so usually at the rear. To get at them frontally means you have to move thru inf. Vs infantry forces, you can ignore the flags and concentrate on killing. Only late in the battle you can mop up around some flags of your picking.

I had a crack So Guards coy advancing on a single tank. One unit made it to the woods and finally got him from the rear. I needed 4 more tanks to stop that advance across 150 open metres! (armor only vs armor) Of course the tanks had to leave their ambush positions and could not meet the armor onsalught on the other flank (well... vs crack T34M42s a PzIIIj ain't a good match at 200m anyway) :mad:

5 minutes? You lucky bastard. I will never ever play another 5000pts +100% AI assault resulting in almost 7000 men vs my 700. 30 Min per turn (for the AI).

I am currently considering changing the rules to exclude these battles (or at least use an option to have them less often). After all I already bent the rules when ingoring a large battle muliplicator. Now it is still 2000pts +100% inf only AI assault.

Gruß

Joachim

[OBJ]

Question on edited ammo load outs. Any one notice that when you edit ammo loads in the editor then import the troops with a QB map the ammo loads are unaffected by ammo level set in the QB parameters?

[Joachim]

Originally posted by OBJ:

Question on edited ammo load outs. Any one notice that when you edit ammo loads in the editor then import the troops with a QB map the ammo loads are unaffected by ammo level set in the QB parameters?

Yes. IIRC in v1.02 the ammo for imported troops was 100%. Now in 1.03 the imported troops keep their ammo level.

There is an exception for tanks and guns. It seems that they get the max of either the ammo level set in the QB (applied to some random calculation of amo numbers) or the set amount of amo for that type.

Ie giving a PzIIIj AP only, no HE at 30% (=30rounds) will result in the tank having 30 AP rounds and some HE rounds - overall more than 30%

Read:

You have to set the ammo level manually in the editor (time consuming...) to get the right ammo loadout.

Gruß

Joachim

[atiff]

I have noticed the odd strange thing in respect to edited ammo. I need to test it more, but this is what I *think* I have seen:

- I edited ammo to about 70%. I remember editing all my (Soviet) squads to 30 ammo. In the game, I noticed they had varying numbers from 28 to 33.

- Tank ammo example like you said, Scarhead.

Anyway, I will probably test this weekend, to see if I am imagining it.

[atiff]

No, I wasn't imagining it, and it doesn't just apply to tanks, Joachim.

After testing with several different variables, it seems that the ammo you get in a QB is the LARGER of:

- the ammo you set for the troops in the Editor

- the random ammo level set by the computer based on % set in the battle paramters

In the case of things with multiple ammo types, this calculation is done for each separate ammo type.

All this is a little strange, but apparently true.

EDIT:

Apparently, this is working as intended for QB's. To quote the 1.03 patch readme file:

"Troops imported into a QB have ammo reloaded but only to the percentage set in the QB parameters."

So you either have the QB setting, or more. Never less than the QB setting.

[ August 01, 2003, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: atiff ]

[Joachim]

Originally posted by atiff:

No, I wasn't imagining it, and it doesn't just apply to tanks, Joachim.

After testing with several different variables, it seems that the ammo you get in a QB is the LARGER of:

- the ammo you set for the troops in the Editor

- the random ammo level set by the computer based on % set in the battle paramters

In the case of things with multiple ammo types, this calculation is done for each separate ammo type.

All this is a little strange, but apparently true.

EDIT:

Apparently, this is working as intended for QB's. To quote the 1.03 patch readme file:

"Troops imported into a QB have ammo reloaded but only to the percentage set in the QB parameters."

So you either have the QB setting, or more. Never less than the QB setting.

Good work, Andrew.

This does make sense. To get exactly the ammo level for the imported troops, one would need to set a much lower ammo level in the QB. which in turn would hamper the QB/aux forces.

But I guess I can live with my core forces getting more ammo than specified with the ammo level. I spend 10 favor each battle to give them more ammo, and I want to have something in return for that!

Gruß

Joachim

[SuperSulo]

(From memory:)

To get the QB ammo setting for your Battle Group guys, you set their ammo to 0 in the SE (hold down shift when changing the ammo and it will be alot faster).

If you get Full ammo for the battle, you don't have to change the ammo to 0 in SE.

If you change the ammo for one squad to say 45 (normal 50), and the QB setting is 10% (so it should get around 5, the amount is a bit random), it will keep it's 45 ammo. All Aux units (bought in the QB setup, not in the SE) will get 10%.

If you think your crack tanker should be able to have some say over his ammo loadout, he can. Say he's in a PzIIIJ with a 50mm/L60. He knows he's about to face a combined soviet force. He knows he has StuG's with him. Do he really want 57 HE and only 27 AP rounds? If you/he want, you can change it to something like 25 HE and 59 AP.

Just make sure you dont set it to something higher than your allowed QB ammo setting, that's cheating . So is giving him something like 25 Tungsten rounds .

So in conclusion:

"Imported units will get thier ammo reloaded UP TO the level set in the QB. No ammo will be stripped from them, so if they have more ammo than the QB setting allows, they will keep their ammo. Panzer's ammo-type-ratio will NOT change, so custom loadouts are possible."

It's a beautiful system, and they made it exactlly as I asked them to. (Probably) no one but us campaigners will ever use it, but they still took the time and fixed this for us. God bless BFC!

[atiff]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

(From memory:)

To get the QB ammo setting for your Battle Group guys, you set their ammo to 0 in the SE (hold down shift when changing the ammo and it will be alot faster).

Thank you! I was not aware of this feature, that will make things much faster.

[atiff]

More on the Soviet campaign:

Just finished battle #7, which was the first playing as Partisans.

First off, the types of battle are a little different when playing with Partisans. Basically, I've made the battle type either Probe or Meeting Engagement, as it is doubtful the Partisans would be found attacking a dug-in position, or defending one themselves. Also, you don't get much in the way of supporting arms; just infantry and some light MGs (in July 41, anyway).

The setup was an Allied Probe (ie, Partisans off to give the Fascists what for). The battle was quite small, only 300 points, due to the fact that Partisan units are very cheap, and they don't get to use vehicles, guns, artillery or other toys. For that, I got two full companies of Partisans (admittedly, Unfit and 30% casualties made them cheaper), one of which is my Core Force converted into partisan squads.

The enemy was quite weak, only two platoons of German Security troops. There were two small flags on the map, so the AI had deployed one platoon on each.

Not to know this, I planned to take one flag and call it a day. I had no trouble getting close due to plenty cover, and engaged the defenders there at close range. Then I had a problem with auto-ceasefire, I think due to "low ammo" (although I thougt I had plenty left) and the game would not go past a certain point. At that point, I was contesting the target flag, and had killed 9 Germans while losing only 3 of my own men. I called it a Minor Win for me, it was pretty obvious I would capture my target flag quite easily, and then I would have just sat there had the game not quit on me (I worked out the result based on points as they would have been if I had owned the flag).

All the lads have managed to get back up to Green quality now (thanks to Regular replacements - Some of those partisans I roped in must have been hunters or something!). Also, my Favour is on the rise, slowly. So onwards and upwards.....

Overall, I think Partisan games give the player a bit of an advantage. You almost always will have more men, as they are so cheap; you just have to use them carefully as they don't pack much firepower. Stealth, flanking tactics and generally not getting caught in a stand-up fight are the name of the game (which fits partisan ideals quite well). Also, hope you don't run into enemy fighting vehicles..... The partisan battles are a chance to "give a bit back" after getting thrashed around earlier, so I think I have set them up OK.

Joachim, do you want an updated Soviet BCR (v1.01) file with the alterations I have made? (the Partisan modifiers, basically)

[OBJ]

Thanks SuperSulo etal, I had started giving my core force units custom loadouts and was noticing the QB generator wasn't lowering them to the correct %.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by atiff:

More on the Soviet campaign:

Joachim, do you want an updated Soviet BCR (v1.01) file with the alterations I have made? (the Partisan modifiers, basically)

Yes, please. Currently considering to use the extended ranges for modified die rolls. OTOH it may get more complicated. It is a good way to get extreme dice rolls a bit more seldom...

Gruß

Joachim

[ August 04, 2003, 04:16 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ]

[Joachim]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

(From memory:)

If you think your crack tanker should be able to have some say over his ammo loadout, he can. Say he's in a PzIIIJ with a 50mm/L60. He knows he's about to face a combined soviet force. He knows he has StuG's with him. Do he really want 57 HE and only 27 AP rounds? If you/he want, you can change it to something like 25 HE and 59 AP.

Just make sure you dont set it to something higher than your allowed QB ammo setting, that's cheating .

...

So in conclusion:

"Imported units will get thier ammo reloaded UP TO the level set in the QB. No ammo will be stripped from them, so if they have more ammo than the QB setting allows, they will keep their ammo. Panzer's ammo-type-ratio will NOT change, so custom loadouts are possible."

It's a beautiful system, and they made it exactlly as I asked them to. (Probably) no one but us campaigners will ever use it, but they still took the time and fixed this for us. God bless BFC!

Nope, as stated above, the ammo type ratio will change. Giving 20 AP and 10 HE rounds to a PzIIIj (99rounds max) will usually result in getting some extra HE. With StuGIIIb's loadout you will see this even more (5 types of ammo with only 44 rounds). Read: Giving your crack PzIII some additional AP will lead to a higher overall loadout.

Evidence strongly indicates Andrews model with the max of either set level (for a given ammo type) or the random amount calculated by CM is used for each type. The total loadout is only cut when the max (or standard for guns?) ammo for the unit is reached.

The hint with the shift to change the ammo is excellent!

Gruß

Joachim

[SuperSulo]

Originally posted by Scarhead:

Nope, as stated above, the ammo type ratio will change. Giving 20 AP and 10 HE rounds to a PzIIIj (99rounds max) will usually result in getting some extra HE. With StuGIIIb's loadout you will see this even more (5 types of ammo with only 44 rounds). Read: Giving your crack PzIII some additional AP will lead to a higher overall loadout.

Ah yes, I was only refering to the situation when you have given it a full amount of ammo. If you give it ammo when you have less than full ammo, you will get some extra shells... Nothing's perfect, right? Just be happy that it wont go over the Max value, as it did in some beta of version 1.03.

Originally posted by Scarhead:

Evidence strongly indicates Andrews model with the max of either set level (for a given ammo type) or the random amount calculated by CM is used for each type. The total loadout is only cut when the max (or standard for guns?) ammo for the unit is reached.

Yes, that sounds correct.

Originally posted by Scarhead:

The hint with the shift to change the ammo is excellent!

Gruß

Joachim

Yes, it's a real life-saver! (mousebutton lifesaver that is ).

[Joachim]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

Ah yes, I was only refering to the situation when you have given it a full amount of ammo. If you give it ammo when you have less than full ammo, you will get some extra shells... Nothing's perfect, right? Just be happy that it wont go over the Max value, as it did in some beta of version 1.03.

Why, I'd like more than 100% ammo. I take all ammo I can get. Esp for ATGs this is no problem. It takes me a lot of time to deploy my forces vs an unknown enemy at low ammo levels. I'd be much happier if I had enough ammo to defend my position and would not need to check where can I defend and retreat.

Last battle was real luck. PzIII plt HQ immo'd, out of ammo, 100m ahead of my low ammo center inf positions. Yet a successful counter attack vs the Soviet center and left thrust. Mauled the first wave, but a weaker second wave came in - and me had nothing except mud to throw at them. Only a matter of minutes till the Soviets would toast that tank or force it to be abandoned (and kill or capture the crew).

Left flank low on ammo, when together with the 2nd wave in the center a strong attack came in. In turn 40 (of 40+) Ivan had just reached my (trench) positions when the game ended. Major victory - I had only half the flags, but almost no casualties, while 900 out of 2700 Soviets had fallen. Given that I had less than 200 men at 30%ammo, a rather good toll.

Gruß

Joachim

[Hanky]

Hi - Im new to BCR and have a question about the taskforce purchase.

Can I split platoons from my autogen'ed task force? For example my autogen gets:

2 Panzer III platoons

1 Independent Panzer 38.

1 Independent Panzer II.

If I only have enough armor points to purchase 1 of the Panzer III platoons, can I split the 2nd Panzer III platoon into independent units and buy them piecemeal? Or do I have to buy the Panzer II and the Panzer 38 followed by filling in with other armor? Does this also apply to infantry companies with support too?

I did a search and couldnt find an answer to my question...

[zukkov]

well look at it this way. it's YOUR campaign, so nobody's gonna complain if you split up the platoon. actually, i had a similar situation. for the selections i had a platoon of p3h's, a platoon of p2c's, and a single p3h. i didn't have enough points to buy the p3h platoon, so i got the p2c platoon and the single p3h. after i started the game, i realized i could have just bought 3 independant p3h's. oh well, i got 6 tanks where i would have only got 3. it's a trade off....

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Hanky:

Hi - Im new to BCR and have a question about the taskforce purchase.

Can I split platoons from my autogen'ed task force? For example my autogen gets:

2 Panzer III platoons

1 Independent Panzer 38.

1 Independent Panzer II.

If I only have enough armor points to purchase 1 of the Panzer III platoons, can I split the 2nd Panzer III platoon into independent units and buy them piecemeal? Or do I have to buy the Panzer II and the Panzer 38 followed by filling in with other armor? Does this also apply to infantry companies with support too?

I did a search and couldnt find an answer to my question...

You can split them (and this is official ). IIRC somewhere in the game guide it says that you can use parts of inf btns or companies from the random battle, so you can buy single tanks our of plts, too.

Gruß

Joachim

[OBJ]

Scarhead, now that you're the keeper of the BCR flame, would you be interested in looking at an Excel spreadsheet that automates most of the campaign and battle set up functions?

Inspired by Max BrauHaus' effort with BCR '41, I've done something similar for BCR '42 v1.2, and also added a several sheets for setting up and tracking individual unit experience potential and actual experience, and leader bonus award levels and actual bonuses.

I'd really appreciate someone taking a look at the mechanics to see if they work as the rules intend. I'm sure I've missed some things.

I'm in the process of finishing the after battle rules. Let me know if you’re interested.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by OBJ:

Scarhead, now that you're the keeper of the BCR flame, would you be interested in looking at an Excel spreadsheet that automates most of the campaign and battle set up functions?

Inspired by Max BrauHaus' effort with BCR '41, I've done something similar for BCR '42 v1.2, and also added a several sheets for setting up and tracking individual unit experience potential and actual experience, and leader bonus award levels and actual bonuses.

I'd really appreciate someone taking a look at the mechanics to see if they work as the rules intend. I'm sure I've missed some things.

I'm in the process of finishing the after battle rules. Let me know if you’re interested.

I am more than interested - I have two days off starting tomorrow and wanted to do a spreadsheet on my own that week. I have the general layout of the file, but not much more yet, as I was waiting for some holidays (OTOH we are in the upper 30s here and the sun is burning down... brain is slow ... hmmm... maybe I'll take my girlfriends laptop and create it outside on the banks of the Rhine).

The most important thing for me is to get one parameter and modifier sheet where all results are listed - and their respective modifiers. The goal is to make it easier to create new campaigns (43+, Soviet, CMAK...), as you only have to change that single sheet.

I'll send you a mail with my address, please mail the file to me and I'll see how it works. If it is what I want I'll gladly use it. If not, maybe I'll mod it.

Gruß

Joachim

[SuperSulo]

My download page has changed URL, it's now:

http://home.swipnet.se/supersulo/biltong/

[Hanky]

Is there a guide on using the Scenario Editor out there for managing the battlegroup and attachments? Im just getting into '41 and it just doesnt feel right looking at my battlegroup with a mix of experience when they should all be reg or green.

Also there is mention in the old threads of PDF versions of BCR. Are those still around? The BCR website only has the excel ones and when I print those out I get nasty text clipping.

Lastly, a large immediate night assault is hell when you get a green taskforce. Now I am off to research night fighting..

[uhu]

Originally posted by Hanky:

Is there a guide on using the Scenario Editor out there for managing the battlegroup and attachments? Im just getting into '41 and it just doesnt feel right looking at my battlegroup with a mix of experience when they should all be reg or green.

Also there is mention in the old threads of PDF versions of BCR. Are those still around? The BCR website only has the excel ones and when I print those out I get nasty text clipping.

Lastly, a large immediate night assault is hell when you get a green taskforce. Now I am off to research night fighting..

I don't know about auch guide, but I will make here quick one:

1, Look at, what type of map do you need and choose such a type from the MAP LIST (or, if there isn't any, than an identical /no trees -> light trees).

2, Load the map into the CM scenario editor.

3, Llook at the scenario parameters and edit - if it should be edited - in the editor.

4, Buy your battlegroup and edit them as it needed (name, ammo, experimence). IF the scenario parameter is with NO RARITY, than buy also your attachment force. (Of course only that units, what are allowed for you to buy!)

5, There is many times one problem also (or I'm an idiot): the placement squares are not full in the last two rows, so you can't edit the placement in the first turn of the real battle! So, go in the editor in the map editor and turn on the placement buttom, but be cautious - look only on the very left side (it's a good idea to hide the rest of the view with a paper ), not to see the placement squares of the enemy. If it needed, make the last two row full green.

6, Save and quit.

Bye,

Uhu

[Joachim]

Originally posted by uhu:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hanky:

Is there a guide on using the Scenario Editor out there for managing the battlegroup and attachments? Im just getting into '41 and it just doesnt feel right looking at my battlegroup with a mix of experience when they should all be reg or green.

Also there is mention in the old threads of PDF versions of BCR. Are those still around? The BCR website only has the excel ones and when I print those out I get nasty text clipping.

Lastly, a large immediate night assault is hell when you get a green taskforce. Now I am off to research night fighting..

I don't know about auch guide, but I will make here quick one:

1, Look at, what type of map do you need and choose such a type from the MAP LIST (or, if there isn't any, than an identical /no trees -> light trees).

2, Load the map into the CM scenario editor.

3, Llook at the scenario parameters and edit - if it should be edited - in the editor.

4, Buy your battlegroup and edit them as it needed (name, ammo, experimence). IF the scenario parameter is with NO RARITY, than buy also your attachment force. (Of course only that units, what are allowed for you to buy!)

5, There is many times one problem also (or I'm an idiot): the placement squares are not full in the last two rows, so you can't edit the placement in the first turn of the real battle! So, go in the editor in the map editor and turn on the placement buttom, but be cautious - look only on the very left side (it's a good idea to hide the rest of the view with a paper ), not to see the placement squares of the enemy. If it needed, make the last two row full green.

6, Save and quit.

Bye,

Uhu </font>

[OBJ]

Hey Scarhead.

I've been out of town this past week. I didn't see any e-mail traffic back re BCR '42 auto-parameters. If you sent them, my wife may have deleted the e-mail as potential pornographic spam. She does that to pretty much everything we get from any source she doesn't know.

Thanks, :confused:

[Joachim]

Originally posted by OBJ:

Hey Scarhead.

I've been out of town this past week. I didn't see any e-mail traffic back re BCR '42 auto-parameters. If you sent them, my wife may have deleted the e-mail as potential pornographic spam. She does that to pretty much everything we get from any source she doesn't know.

Thanks, :confused:

RL caught me - my girlfriends plan was not anticipated, but welcome. Seeing her for a complete month (instead of the expected week) means cutting on game (or BCR) time for that month.

Designed a new rule-maker friendly interface, but when I wrote down my plan, I found that I could probably create 10 years of rule sets in the same time than actually programming it. This means your tool will definitely do, except for some minor mods, as I want to change some rules. Especially the ammo and casualty levels will see lower probabilities for 10%ammo or 50% casualties.

So I will modify some '42 rules (June to December)and write the '43 rules and see if your tool works for that.

Gruß

Joachim