German or Soviet Corps HQ OOB

[RawRecruit]

Does anyone know what would be attached to a corps HQ for both the Russians and the Germans in 1943, like AA sections or tanks etc?

[Bonxa]

I don't think there were specific OOBs for higher echelon units (division tops, but not above it). Another thing to note is that (at least in late 42 which is what CMMC2 simulates ) a Soviet Army was about equivalent to a German Corps. With a Soviet Corps somewhat like a big Division. Soviet Divisions were generally weaker than German ones.

But the most significant thing I would expect at the Corps/Army level is more and heavier artillery. You might also find engineers, recon and perhaps separate tank/anti-tank brigades/battalions.

There are most certainly good fellows around here who can give you more complete answers.

[Sergei]

I believe you are asking about the HQ unit itself, not the subordinate units.

I would wager... lots of people working with logistics, communications and all the paperwork for the Corps. Intelligence.

Some of them would have been unfit for front service, but there would have been some real infantry too to provide security. As these HQ's would have been quite a way behind the front line, the main bigger weapon systems present would have been AA guns and armoured cars.

[Grisha]

Soviet rifle corps were dropped from about late summer 1941 until fall 1942, I think. Even after they saw a return in official Red Army TOE, they were not very standardized. I can have a look once home, and post my findings then.

Incidently, if you want to design scenarios that depict good Soviet performance in 1941-42, use cavalry. They were actually very resilient in combat. One cavalry corps spent up to 6 months behind German lines until the Germans sent 7 divisons after it. Even then, the corps returned to friendly lines with about a 1/3 their original strength.

[Denwad]

perhaps an understrength battalion with one company greens and the rest conscripts and no heavy weapons ( HMG, mortars ) would represent the adhoc fighting unit that might be assembled with all the clerks, intelligence units etc. to defend the HQ?

maybe a platoon of crack security troops to represent feldgendarmerie units?

[Dandelion]

Originally posted by RawRecruit:

Does anyone know what would be attached to a corps HQ for both the Russians and the Germans in 1943, like AA sections or tanks etc?

Raw

Apart from the Divisions, A German Corps was not suppose to have any other attachments than the Corps signal battallion (Korps-Nachr.-Abt. XX), the Corps supply unit which varied in size (Korps-Nachsch.Truppen XX), and the Corps Artillery command (Arko XX).

This was because the Corps command was a bit like the Battallion command, i.e. it was sort of a coordinating level between Division and Army with the latter two being "units" as such.

The Corps Hq unit itself wasn't all that big, it contained 17 officers, 9 Beamte and 70 other ranks. Could give you a breakdown if you want.

Flak and Arty were supposed to be Army level units, supplementing those such found at divisional level.

Of course, as the war progressed there were all kinds of ad-hoc solutions, and in some instances we see Corps Hqs acting divisional command in effect, having attached no divisions but a huge number of small units and KGs.

Hope that helps some

Dandelion

[RawRecruit]

Thanks for the replies! I'm working on something where I want the HQs to be represented and that basically answers my question.

[jacobs_ladder2]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

The Corps Hq unit itself wasn't all that big, it contained 17 officers, 9 Beamte and 70 other ranks. Could give you a breakdown if you want.

I'd like to see that breakdown (and, if possible, the source.)

Cheers

Paul

[Dandelion]

No problem Paul, designing something exciting?

The source is the K.St.N. 12 table. If unfamiliar, the K.St.N tables are the War Establishment tables of the German Army. Must be read with the K.A.N. tables (of same number), displaying equipment in detail. Shows authorised strength. If you're researching a particular unit, you have to look their strength returns up at the relevant dates, in which they will always report the "Soll" (the K.St.N.) as compared to "Ist" (actual strength). Easy to get the hang of once you've seen a few.

Here goes, the authorised Corps Hq:

Corps Command

- Commanding General (armed with pistol)

- Chief of the General Staff (armed with pistol)

- 2 personal aides (ordonnanzen), both armed with carbines (i.e. the standard 98K).

Command detachment (Führungsabteilung)

Detachment Ia:

- Ia (operations officer, or first officer of the General Staff), armeed with pistol

- O1 (Aide, or Ordonnanzoffizier 1), armed with pistol.

- NCO as Clerk (Schreiber), armed with pistol.

- Two enlisted men as clerks, one armed with pistol the other with carbine.

Detachment Ic:

- Ic (or Intel officer, or third officer of the General Staff), armed with pistol.

- O3 and O4 (as above, number 3 and 4), both armed with pistol.

- Interpreter, a Beamte rank, armed with pistol.

- NCO as clerk, armed with carbine.

- Enlisted man as clerk, armed with carbine.

Quartermaster detachment (Q-Abt or Quartiermeisterabteilung)

Command detachment:

- Ib (aka Qu), (Logistics officer or second officer of the General Staff) armed with pistol.

- O2, as above, number two, armed with pistol.

- Specialist in munitions and Gas (Fachbearbeiter für Munition und Gaswesen), officer rank, armed with pistol.

- Equipment Specialist (Fachbearbeiter für Gerät), officer rank, armed with pistol.

- 2 NCOs as clerks, carbines.

- 2 Enlisted men as clerks, carbines both. 1 bicycle issued to these two.

- Either a Corps Supply Officer, or a Motor Vehicle Specialist with clerk, depending on the size of the Corps. Pistol, clerk with carbine.

Corps Logistics (Korpsintendant), aka "IVa":

- Corps Logistics Officer (Korpsintendant), a Beamte rank, pistol.

- Assistant (Mitarbeiter), Beamte rank, pistol.

- NCO as clerk, carbine.

- Enlisted man as clerk, carbine.

- Personal aide (Ordonnanz) of the Korspintendant, carbine

Corps Medical Officer (Korpsarzt), aka "IVb":

- Corps Medical Officer (Korpsarzt, pistol

- Aide and Medical Officer, pistol.

- Specialist in Pharmacy (Sachbearbeiter Apotheker), a Beamte rank, pistol.

- Medical NCOs, two of them, pistols.

- Enlisted man as clerk, pistol.

- Personal aide of the Corps Medical Officer, pistol.

Corps Veterinary Officer (Korpsveterinär), aka "IVc":

- Corps Veterinary Officer (Korpsveterinär), pistol.

- Aide, Veterinary Officer, pistol.

- NCO as clerk, carbine.

- Enlisted man as clerk, carbine, and a bicycle.

- Personal aide for the Corps Veterinary Officer, carbine.

Adjutantur (unsure of how to translate, maybe Andreas can help)

Adjutant:

- Adjutant (liter. "Aide" or ADC, but this is an administrative officer, and nobody's aide), aka "IIa", pistol.

- Chief of Registry (Registrator), a Beamte rank, pistol.

- NCO as clerk, carbine.

Corps Judicial Officer:

- Judge (Richter), a Beamte rank, pistol.

- Court Martial Documentations Officer (Urkundsbeamter der Geschäftstelle des Militärgerichts), a Beamte rank, pistol.

- Enlisted man as clerk, carbine.

Headquarters (of the Adjutantur), aka H.Qu.:

- Commander (Kommandant), pistol.

- Paymaster (Zahlmeister), a Beamte rank, pistol.

- Documentations Officer (Registrator), a Beamte rank, pistol.

- NCO (Oberfeldwebel), pistol.

- Aide squad (Ordonnanzkommando) with squadleader (also Gas protection NCO) and eight aides, all with carbines.

- Enlisted man as clerk, carbine and bicycle.

- 2 cooks, both with carbine.

Rations Train (Verpflegungstross):

- Rations NCO (Verpflegungsunteroffizier), carbine.

- Enlisted man, carbine.

Luggage Train (Gepäcktross)

- Leader (NCO), carbine.

- Shoemaker, carbine.

- Tailor, carbine.

Motor Park (Kraftwagenstaffel):

- NCO, carbine.

- 13 enlisted men as drivers, carbines.

Sporting:

:1 Light Bus for Officers and Beamte

:2 Light Cars (think Kübelwagen)

:2 Medium Cars (think SAS Chevy)

:1 Heavy Car (Er, can't think of any generally known version here).

:1 Medium Bus for NCOs and enlisted men.

:6 Light trucks (Rations, 2 for luggage and equipment, fieldkitchen, gasoline and one for the Close Protection team (see below)).

Close Protection Team (Stabswache):

- Leader (NCO), pistol

- 2 HMG teams each of 6 men, a HMG and carbines for the men.

- Rangefinder, pistol.

- Weapons Specialist (Mechanic), pistol.

All in all:

17 Officers

9 Beamte

17 NCOs

53 Other ranks

That's excluding the Arko of course, not all Corps had one. In addition, the Medical organisation could have a Corps level group.

The pattern of organisation - division into detachments, the nicknames of the officers etc - were the same from battallion and up, in all Hqs. Of course, numbers of men varied, but did not progress with echelon. E.g. a divisional staff was considerably larger than a Corps staff. The The German Army considered Regiment, Division and Army as Units, whereas Battallion, Brigade and Corps were subdivisions of units. In a unit Staff, the number of tasks increased. The Germans tried to keep the size of staffs down. Even the OKW itself counted no more than 220 men, plus 50 civilian employees.

Organisation of staffs changed extremely little during the war (as opposed to most other military organisations in Germany). Infantry divisions, and Corps, never changed. Panzerdivisions changed only once (in 41).

Cheers

Dandelion

[RawRecruit]

Great post, Dandelion! Thanks!