Molotovs - A Rant

[undead reindeer cavalry]

Originally posted by kingofthehill:

Hey man those bottle is not a Molotov Cocktail but is a bottle of a poor Russian wine....

:mad: POOR RUSSIAN WINE?!?!111 :mad:

looks more like a Koskenkorva bottle to me.

Koskenkorva Viina — or simply Koskenkorva — is a Finnish brand of clear spirit with the alcohol content of 38 %. its smooth and fresh taste makes it perfect to be served straight as an aperitif schnaps, or mixed in various drinks and cocktails.

Koskenkorva Viina is named after the Koskenkorva distillery, where the high-quality ethyl alcohol used in its making is distilled from Finnish barley. Koskenkorva Viina is produced and bottled at the Rajamäki production plant by the Altia Corporation, the leading Finnish wine and spirits house. the Rajamäki plant was established in 1888.

perhaps BFC could simply switch hand grenade and MC data?

the whole infantry assault code itself could use some finesse, tho. e.g. once my squad KOed a sherman that was some 30 meters away. in between of the squad and the sherman were two Russian SMG squads. quite a fellow the one who KOed that enemy combat vehicle.

[PLM]

i just left a multiplayer game to bitch about the molotov thing i remebered this thread. I had a pioneer soviet squad that threw a freaking molotov cocktail at a flampanzer instead of a demo charge!! GGODDAMNIT. I thought it was unlikely they survived that long anyway. I'm in a desperate situation and severely pissed off. 5000pt assault i am defending this kind of crap cant happen. the pioneer squad was butchered by teh way thanks a lot! :mad:

[Sergei]

Originally posted by undead reindeer cavalry:

looks more like a Koskenkorva bottle to me.

Then it must be Salmiakki-Kossu, by the colour. (Ammonium-chloride flavoured booze, a Finnish favourite.)

[Sergei]

Originally posted by undead reindeer cavalry:

the whole infantry assault code itself could use some finesse, tho. e.g. once my squad KOed a sherman that was some 30 meters away. in between of the squad and the sherman were two Russian SMG squads. quite a fellow the one who KOed that enemy combat vehicle.

Good suggestion. It should go something like, if a tank has friendly unpinned infantry within 20 meters, it will be considered as having escorts and thus quite safe from assaults.

And tankodesantniki should act like Schurtzen.

[Sgt AA]

Perhaps it would have been more eficcient if it was just Koskenkorva. I read somewhere that during the "race for Dnjepr" that the russian advance stopped for 3 days because the germans missed to destroy their liquer amongst other things when they left a city. That gave them a chance to withdraw and regroup. A very eficcient defence tactic in my opinion

[ April 12, 2004, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Sgt AA ]

[Sergei]

Similar situation happened when Finns liberated Tornio from Germans in 1944 - a stock of cognac was liberated along, which was kinda dangerous when you have just made a seaborne invasion and would have to prepare for a German counter-attack. And of course in 1941 the capture of Petrozavodsk, with an intact distillery... wasn't intact for long, as soldiers used an anti-tank rifle to make holes into the metallic distillation thingy.

Btw. there is no such fitness-level in CM as 'drunken'... would unfit conscripts with no commander bonuses simulate it? At least the current TacAI already acts as if the boys have had something stronger than water.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

has anyone looked into the databases of CM? how & where they are stored. perhaps we could hack a patch of our own? switch hand grenade & molotov values or somefink, depending on what the database is like.

this "bug" is annoying once you are aware of it.

[JasonC]

"would unfit conscripts with no commander bonuses simulate it?"

No, I think not. Men become less sensitive to danger, not more so. (They are in effect too stupid to realize they are going to get themselves killed). 25% fanaticism maybe, but with low morale otherwise to simulate poor execution. Weakened greens along with that, maybe.

[SlapHappy]

OK, so if the Molotov coktails are so ineffective, why not just have the Russians invite the German tank crew to have "cocktails"? Then, once they're in the bar they can goad the Germans into hitting on the local bar sluts. One quick call to the crewmens wives and you get the desired result: Dead German crew........

[s3333cr333tz]

I think the point I was trying to make in an earlier reply had little to do with the actual reality of molotovs, but rather the reality of a given situation. Be it in a game, or in WW2.

The fact is, you are going to use your most effective weapon when confronted with a life threatening attack. The whole, "lets save the good stuff for next time" is a rather stupid thing to do. If you don't give it all you've got there may not BE a next time. On the other hand if you successfully deal with THIS time, next time may occur far enough down the road that someone else can handle next time, or you will be rearmed with a more effective weapon.

Im not going to argue the finer points of Molotov creation or implementation. I will argue that in any world, or situation in which I have two weapons that can effectively knock out a tank. Im not going to be using the one that says "slim to none" on its acme label. Whatever alternate reality we want to set this scenario up in. Im using my best weapon first.

Incidently grenades are more effective than molotovs in CMBB, regardless of this being historically accurate, this is the way the game is and probably will remain. It is perfectly fair for someone to gripe about an unrealistic behavior in a game that prides itself on its realism. One must believe that this is a bug, and that it was never intended to reduce the inherant AT capability of Soviet infantry. This thread has gotten so off track with people argueing the fundamentals of molotovs that we lost site of the ball.

[Bone_Vulture]

I'd like to add another angle to the discussion: assaulting a tank with a grenade requires quite disciplined action: you need to chuck the grenade inside the tank, between the threads or between panels. The point is - a tank probably can't be harmed id a grenade is thrown at it.

In comparison, assaulting with a molotov is vastly easier. You only need to get relatively close to the tank, so the thrown molotov will both hit a critical spot and shatter.

Yes, I know the CM animation is an abstraction, but there's a clear difference in the difficulty between assaulting with these two weapons. Perhaps in future releases grenade assaults would only take place if

A) The assaulting team is not supressed in any way

The team is of at least regular experience.

This way, the skill and risk taking related to the grenade assault would be simulated better.