Cookie Monster Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Hi all, I recently purchased CMBB Special Edition and I'm loving this game! I've only played one scenario so far, Winter Wonderland. My question is this: Why do my veteran squads all dive for cover and start crawling towards the enemy when they start shooting at me? What am I doing wrong. Details: I have 4 squads setup with 180 degree covering arcs. Two of them get the move to contact command while the other two stay put. When one of my suddenly take fire all the other squads panic and start crawling towards the enemy fire! Needless to say they all die at the end of the second turn of the ambush. 40 men killed by a squad of green troops! The manual states that men will take cover while under fire but why didn't my stationary troops with the cover arc order not return fire? They were definately in LOS of the ambushing enemy unit. Instead my covering units also paniced and crawled to their deaths. Any help is appreciated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Alkema Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Were your Vets in the open? How close together were they? Were the overwatch guys in any cover? Did thier cover arcs extend all the way to the ambush? Could they see the ambushers? I suspect that the answer is "getting shot, at close range, in the open, is going to end your day no matter who you are." Stay in cover whenever possible and cross suspect open areas with a single half squad. They will still die, but the rest of the platoon won't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Hi, Yes, one squad was indeed out in the open when it took fire, the other moving squad was in light tree coverage, the two stationary squads were in thicker tree cover. The arcs of one of the squads did not extend to the ambushers but the other squad had a cover arc extended to the ambushers. Both of the covering squads had mg's. Again one squad could trace an LOS to the ambushers but not the other. All squads were packed into a 5mx30m area. I like the idea about sending a half squad into a suspect zone. Will give this a try. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Hi, Yes, one squad was indeed out in the open when it took fire, the other moving squad was in light tree coverage, the two stationary squads were in thicker tree cover. The arcs of one of the squads did not extend to the ambushers but the other squad had a cover arc extended to the ambushers. Both of the covering squads had mg's. Again one squad could trace an LOS to the ambushers but not the other. All squads were packed into a 5mx30m area. I like the idea about sending a half squad into a suspect zone. Will give this a try. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Alkema Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Cookie Monster: All squads were packed into a 5mx30m area. Fire, area or targeted, will have a suppressing effect in an area around the target. How big? Not sure. Shooting at a squad in a tightly packed platoon can make the whole platoon want to duck. As JasonC often mentions, the ideal is to have widely spaced troops that can all see the same target. Of course, close terrain can make that difficult to accomplish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 although i'm no expert, i do think cover arcs are used slightly wrong. give the overwatch squads highest range 180o cover arcs facing the enemy. this means they will be encoraged to fire at anything they see. this will hopefully avoid the situation where the ambushers are *just* outside the cover arc. the 1/2 squad scouting is good, also recce by fire. hope this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 Just thought I'd report on my progress. First off I did not bunch up my squads this time. I kept them fairly spread apart but still in command. When I approached suspected enemy positions I used on half squad to attempt to contact enemy while 3 other squads covered. The covering squads were set to 60m cover arc order. This time when the half squad took fire the other squads immediately returned fire. Losses for me decreased significantly while I was able to take ground. Thanks again for the advice. I think I'm getting the hang of it now! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 read this. Not only is it very instructive, its hilarious. Ligur's scouting how-to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Maybe the vets dive for cover and start crawling because... they're VETS? I recall reading somewhere that the learning curve for infantry, tanks and aircrews (we're talking real life here) can be pretty steep. If you manage to survive the first couple battles your likelihood of surviving the rest of the war goes up markedly. U.S. infantry in WWII was notorious in this regard, because replacements would be fed in piecemeal while the unit remained in action, instead of the German practice of withdrawing and refitting entire units. That's where the old line about not getting to know the new guy come from. Latest troops to enter a unit were invariable the first to be killed. [ October 27, 2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedric Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Never use 180 degree cover arcs if you want your covering squads to target within a specific area of suspect or even revealed enemy positions. The AI sometimes will target an enemy thats not a threat to your advancing squads. Check LOS for your covering squads. If they dont have LOS they cant cover. You will need to advance them into a position they can see the area they need to cover. Use narrower cover arcs while advancing. If possible use other elements of your force to cover their advance as well. If close to the enemy, use the advance command for your assult squads instead of move to contact. While its tiring for the troops its more effective for taking ground. If none of this works you're walking into a firestorm and even Vets will get pinned, shaken or outright killed in the face of superior fire. Hope this helps Vedric 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 86smopuim: Good thread, I read it and found it very instructive! MikeyD: Good points, makes sense. Vedric: I've been using 180 degree cover arcs exclusively. I will change to narrower cover arcs per your instruction and see how that works for me. I'm definately starting to get the hang of this game now. I never realized just how complicated infantry combat is. Great game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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