manchildstein (ii) Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 i noticed in the 'hungarian innaccuracies' thread that the toldi 1 had a single-shot 20mm which is modelled in the game, except that the sound is wrong. i'm wondering why the single-shot sound of an ATR wasn't used for the toldi's gun instead of the 6-shot sound from the german 20mm guns. on the topic of the T-60 tank, did it as well also have a 6-shot clip like a german 20mm, because it uses the same sound as the german 20mm 6-shot. by the way, when i was looking through the advanced squad leader (asl) manuals for vehicle notes on the T-50 and T-70, i noticed that the T-60's 'L/85' (is that right? i don't have cmbb handy) gun is given the '20LL' designation. also, i'm fairly certain that the german 20mm guns in the game have varying 'L/values' but they do all seem to use the same 'ack ack ack ack ack ack' sound... anyway, can we expect the toldi sound to be 'fixed' in the 1.02 patch? i would think as well that a single-shot 20mm would be a 'quicker load' than a 6-round 'clip,' so it would be neat if the sound were fixed, but also if the rate of fire were a bit higher... ...just some thoughts on '20mm stuff' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Yeh, there have been complaints in the past about the 'one-size-fits-all' 20mm gun representations. Whether it's Russian, Italian or German, AA or vehicle mount, it's all the same. But of course it's NOT all the same where it COUNTS -- in the gun specs and penetration tables. Based on not much, I'd guess we shouldn't expect a 20mm gun fix in the patch. Sound files take up a lot of space and BFC's getting close to their limit on fitting the game on disk. This might be one of those things that they would'a fixed if they only had space for it on the disk. [ January 24, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 but there is a sound file - at least for the single-shot toldi - which could work. just use the ATR sound. for example, i was playing a scenario where a bunch of T-60s were opening up... and the 6-shot sound got me wondering... did the T-60 have a 6-shot clip?... but more to the point... some ATRs started shooting back at the T-60s, and the single shot of the ATR sounded like just one of the 6-shots from the 20mm... at first i thought it was some kind of bug, or wondered if the t-60 had been 'taken out' in the middle of a shot... then i realized it was an ATR... so why not at least take the existing single-shot ATR sound and use it for the toldi 1? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Let's hope BFC is trolling the board tonight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Good luck Manchildstein II on getting a response to this one, BFC never replied to me. I can certainly live with the wrong sound effect, but what worries me is that single shot 20mm guns are getting the same burst 'to hit' bonus as proper burst firing 20mm AA guns. What I've seen in the game may possibly confirm this, they're very accurate indeed. I hope the 'one size fits all' sound effect doesn't extend to a 'one size fits all' 20mm hit chance. [ January 24, 2003, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: Rex_Bellator ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Prompted by the re-emergence of this question I've set up a quick test. I picked every kind of 20mm equipped German unit I could in 8/41 and set them up as close together as physically possible to ping away at a disarmed KV-2 500m away. There seems to be a problem. The 'one size fits all' 20mm does appear to mean that even single shot 20mms are getting the same hit chances as burst firing 20mms. EG: In the pictures a single shot PSW-231 has exactly the same chance of hitting the KV-2 as the lead slinging Quad 20mm AA gun next to it. Comments? Hmm - I can't get the images to show full size. If you visit the URL where they are stored you can see more clearly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iberian Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: There seems to be a problem. The 'one size fits all' 20mm does appear to mean that even single shot 20mms are getting the same hit chances as burst firing 20mms. Well, if they are basically guns with similar ballistic characteristics, with basically the same optics, why would the first shot have less probabilities in a semi-automatic gun than in an fully automatic one? The hit chance should be the same for the first shot, and successive automatic shots in the salvo should have a slight less hit chance (vibration in the gun mechanism, sligh movement of the vehicle, etc.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 lol - yeah - all the German 20's are auto-cannon - there's no single shot ones there!! In fact appart from the Solothurn 20mm ATR what single shot 20's are there in the game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 isn't there a german halftrack with a single-shot, tungsten-only 20mm?... i think though that maybe it appears after 8-41... as for the pictures... they're also small at the actual site from what i can tell... i think you might have found one of those 'free' upload sites which shrinks your pictures... if so, try getting a free account at tripod.com... they allow full-size pictures... i think stalin's organ may be correct about the vehicles shown ... i thought that even the psw222 had an autocannon... that all (except for that weird halftrack i mentioned above) of the german 20mm vehicle kinds were pretty much of the same type of '6-shot auto-firing mechanism'... and the hungarian toldi having some other kind of gun... perhaps a built-in 'slothurn' ATR? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 The "20mm tungsten only" gun was the 28/21mm squeeze bore, and yes some were fitted to 250/10 and 251/10 h/tracks in place of the 37mm gun. It was also fitted to some 222 a/cars andvarious other vehicles. The "normal" 222 had the same gun as the 231, which I think was the same as the Pz-2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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