Jean Lafitte Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I'd like to read up on the types of tanks possessed by the German Pz Divs on 22 Jun 41. Is there a website that tells us which Pz Divs had Pz 38s? Pz 35s? Types of Pz IIIs, long or short 50mm gun? Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Try here for information. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 German Panzer Strength in June 1941. ==================================== The Wehrmacht possessed the following tanks in June 41: 877 Pzr I (+ 245 under repair) 202 Pzr I with 4.7 cm KwK 38 Pzr I with 15 cm s.I.G. 1074 Pzr II (+ 45 under repair + 15 under production) 85 Pzr II with flamethrower 235 Pzr III with 3.7 KwK (+ 81 under repair) 1090 Pzr III with 5 cm KwK (+ 156 under production) 572 Pzr IV (+ 41 under repair + 38 under production) 377 StuG (+ 56 under production) 187 Pzr 35(t) (+ 11 under repair) 754 Pzr 38(t) (+ 25 under repair + 65 under production) 141 small Pzr Befehlswagen (+ 2 under production) 189 large Pzr Befehlswagen (+ 3 under production) If you are interested in the deployment for Barbarossa, the figures are: 410 Pzr I 746 Pzr II 965 Pzr III 439 Pzr IV 149 Pzr 35(t) 623 Pzr 38(t) 250 StuG Source: Fritz Hahn Waffen und Geheimwaffen Bernard & Graefe Verlag 1987 ISBN 3-7637-5832-1 For panzer formations serving on which front, when, see - http://www.panzerdiesel.com/data/e/2c0.html I realize you'd like another level down, how many of each type in each division. Jentz has that information for various dates. [ October 05, 2003, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: JasonC ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 1. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 1 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 43 PzII, 71 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 11 PzBef 3. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 6 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 58 PzII, 29 PzIII(3,7cm), 81 PzIII(5cm), 32 PzIV, 15 PzBef 4. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 35 (2 btns of 4 coys each) 44 PzII, 31 PzIII(3,7cm), 74 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 8 PzBef 6. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 11 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 47 Pz II, 155 Pz35(t), 30 PzIV, 5 PzBef35(t), 8 PzBef 7. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 25 (3 btns of 4 coys each) 53 PzII, 167 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 7 PzBef38(t), 8 PzBef 8. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 10 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 49 PzII, 118 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 7 PzBef38(t), 8 PzBef 9. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 33 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 8 PzI, 32 PzII, 11 PzIII(3,7cm), 60 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 12 PzBef 10. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 7 (2 btns of 4 coys each) 45 PzII, 105 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 12 PzBef 11. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 15 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 44 PzII, 24 PzIII(3,7cm), 47 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 8 PzBef 12. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 29 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 40 PzI, 33 PzII, 109 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 8 PzBef38(t) 13. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 4 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 45 PzII, 27 PzIII(3,7cm), 44 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 13 PzBef 14. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 36 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 45 PzII, 15 PzIII(3,7cm), 56 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 11 PzBef 16. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 2 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 45 PzII, 23 PzIII(3,7cm), 48 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 10 PzBef 17. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 39 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 12 PzI, 44 PzII, 106 PzIII(5cm), 30 PzIV, 10 PzBef 18. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 18 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 6 PzI, 50 PzII, 99 PzIII(3,7cm), 15 PzIII(5cm), 36 PzIV, 12 PzBef 19. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 27 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 42 PzI, 35 PzII, 110 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 11 PzBef38(t) 20. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 21 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 44 PzI, 31 PzII, 121 Pz38(t), 31 PzIV, 2 PzBef38(t) Sources: German WW2 Organizational Series volumn 3/1: Mechanized Army Divisions 22nd June 1941 Leo W.G. Niehorster Panzer Truppen volumn 1 Thomas Jentz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Lafitte Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 You guys are AWESOME! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Lafitte Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: 1. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 1 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 43 PzII, 71 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 11 PzBef 3. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 6 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 58 PzII, 29 PzIII(3,7cm), 81 PzIII(5cm), 32 PzIV, 15 PzBef 4. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 35 (2 btns of 4 coys each) 44 PzII, 31 PzIII(3,7cm), 74 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 8 PzBef 6. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 11 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 47 Pz II, 155 Pz35(t), 30 PzIV, 5 PzBef35(t), 8 PzBef 7. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 25 (3 btns of 4 coys each) 53 PzII, 167 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 7 PzBef38(t), 8 PzBef 8. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 10 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 49 PzII, 118 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 7 PzBef38(t), 8 PzBef 9. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 33 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 8 PzI, 32 PzII, 11 PzIII(3,7cm), 60 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 12 PzBef 10. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 7 (2 btns of 4 coys each) 45 PzII, 105 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 12 PzBef 11. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 15 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 44 PzII, 24 PzIII(3,7cm), 47 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 8 PzBef 12. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 29 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 40 PzI, 33 PzII, 109 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 8 PzBef38(t) 13. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 4 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 45 PzII, 27 PzIII(3,7cm), 44 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 13 PzBef 14. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 36 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 45 PzII, 15 PzIII(3,7cm), 56 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 11 PzBef 16. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 2 (2 btns of 3 coys each) 45 PzII, 23 PzIII(3,7cm), 48 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 10 PzBef 17. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 39 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 12 PzI, 44 PzII, 106 PzIII(5cm), 30 PzIV, 10 PzBef 18. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 18 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 6 PzI, 50 PzII, 99 PzIII(3,7cm), 15 PzIII(5cm), 36 PzIV, 12 PzBef 19. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 27 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 42 PzI, 35 PzII, 110 Pz38(t), 30 PzIV, 11 PzBef38(t) 20. Panzerdivision Panzerregiment 21 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 44 PzI, 31 PzII, 121 Pz38(t), 31 PzIV, 2 PzBef38(t) Sources: German WW2 Organizational Series volumn 3/1: Mechanized Army Divisions 22nd June 1941 Leo W.G. Niehorster Panzer Truppen volumn 1 Thomas Jentz What about 2nd Pz Div? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron von Beergut Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 2d & 5th Pz were still refitting from their fun in Yugoslavia and would join Barbarossa later. It seems like both had a lot of 37mm PzIII's, some IVd's, and II's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Jean Lafitte: What about 2nd Pz Div? Oh! So you want the reinforcements as well 2. Panzerdivision (Sept 41) Panzerregiment 3 (2 btns of 4 coys each) 63 PzII, 105 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 6 PzBef 5. Panzerdivision (Sept 41) Panzerregiment 31 (2 btns of 4 coys each) 55 PzII, 105 PzIII(5cm), 20 PzIV, 6 PzBef 22. Panzerdivision (Feb 42) Panzerregiment 204 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 60 PzII, 114 Pz38(t), 20 PzIV(kz) (only III.Abteilung sent - 15 PzII, 37 Pz38(t) ) 23. Panzerdivision (Mar 42) Panzerregiment 201 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 34 PzII, 112 PzIII(5kz & 5lg), 32 PzIV(kz), 3 PzBef Infanteriedivision Großdeutschland (May 42) Pz.Abt.Gr.D (1 btn of 3 coys) 12 PzII, 2 PzIII(5kz), 18 PzIV(kz),12 PzIV(lg), 1 PzBef 24. Panzerdivision (May 42) Panzerregiment 24 (3 btns of 3 coys each) 32 PzII, 55 PzIII(5kz), 56 PzIII(5lg), 20 PzIV(kz), 12 PzIV(lg), 7 PzBef SS-Division Wiking (June 42) SS-Pz.Abt.5 (1 btn of 3 coys) 12 PzII, 12 PzIII(5kz), 24 PzIII(5lg), 4 PzIV(kz), 1 PzBef 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Lafitte Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 Do any of the sources tell whether the Pz IIIs with 50mm guns are the long or short version of the 50mm gun for each of the divisions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Jean Lafitte: Do any of the sources tell whether the Pz IIIs with 50mm guns are the long or short version of the 50mm gun for each of the divisions? kz = short lg = long no long 50's in June AFAIK, they all came via reinforcement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Lafitte Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Ahhh! That is very interesting! I did not know that all 50mm lang guns came via reinforcement. I've been interested in this detail for many years. How certain can we be that all 50mm guns on the tanks that rolled on 22 Jun 41 were kurz and that the 50mm lang guns went to the front via reinforcement and/or refit of existing 50mm kurz models? I'm keenly awaiting your message, because I've wondered about this for years. Thanks. [ October 09, 2003, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Jean Lafitte ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Jean Lafitte: Ahhh! That is very interesting! I did not know that all 50mm lang guns came via reinforcement. I've been interested in this detail for many years. How certain can we be that all 50mm guns on the tanks that rolled on 22 Jun 41 were kurz and that the 50mm lang guns went to the front via reinforcement and/or refit of existing 50mm kurz models? I'm keenly awaiting your message, because I've wondered about this for years. Thanks. Well, you'll have to wait a bit longer. I just got to work, and all of my books are at home 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Jean Lafitte: How certain can we be that all 50mm guns on the tanks that rolled on 22 Jun 41 were kurz and that the 50mm lang guns went to the front via reinforcement and/or refit of existing 50mm kurz models? Because they only started producing them with the 50L60 in November 1941 (or January 1942, depending on who you believe), according to my information. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: Because they only started producing them with the 50L60 in November 1941 (or January 1942, depending on who you believe), according to my information. Well, that certainly seems like a reasonable reason 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Lafitte Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 Thanks so much for clearing it up. I'm an old Advanced Squad Leader player from the day it came out. I gave it up for CMBO/CMBB. Your research is better than mine, because I relied on Avalon Hill's research into these issues. I got the impression from my ASL days that some 50mm lang guns were available to be fitted on Pz IIIs during the summer of 1941. We seem to be fairly certain that this information is wrong, and that the first Pz IIIs were either made or refitted with the 50mm lang gun perhaps as early as November, 1941. Thanks, guys. I don't post much, but I read all the posts and I really appreciate the opportunity to benefit from your expertise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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