CMBO: German Player using Allied side

[lcm1947]

Don't quit. Moneymaxx is just so used to beating me he doesn't think the Americans can win ever. Well, I kind of go along with that but in our current Pbem I'm eating them up so maybe just maybe the American's do have a chance. :cool: We shall see. Do let us know how you fare.

[MAsta_KFC]

The results are:

Axis Tactical Victory

Well, since it was a 1000 point QB and I didn't have any force restriction, I chose the following:

1 x Brit Para Company

1 x Brit 5.5inch VT

5 x TRP

2 x M8HMC

1 x M36 Jackson

1 x 6PDR AT

2 x 3inch Mortar

1 x 2inch Mortar

1 x vet sniper.

Initally it was good, I had my TRPs in some good spots, I *seemed* to be holding them back while using my 3inch to plug the holes where the VT hadn't gotten around to yet. I could see some squads routing in the far horizon as the arty landed. It was a reverse slope, something which I'm not too good at defending.

It's really hard to describe, suffice to say when i ran out of Arty shells, things started to go downhill. The endless swarm of SMG and Heavy SMG were too much, my HMC took out a Pz4G which ran into it's LOS, but then got whacked by a HT that it missed twice. Whats worse, was that my Jackson didn't fire a single shot, it boldy rolled forward (my mistake really) and promplty got shot my the 2nd PZ4G that was waiting. When the HMC died, it was all over.

Whats's amazing is that CMBO men are unbelievably robust. Near the end when he was mopping up and just being careless, he moved 4 squads in a large, heavily damaged light building, all along the base of the building. I aimed my 6PDR at the buidling, fired, it went down. To my dismay, the guys didn't EVEN BLINK AN EYELID and continued to fire away. It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the battle, but I was expecting them to at least put there heads down when a building comes crashing in on them.

Woe is me

[moneymaxx]

The force selections seems fine, personally I would have traded the 5.5inch VT for 2 4.5inch to have more flexibility. All in all you fell victim to the typical infantry swarm, that can hardly be stopped if you aren't incedibly lucky with your arty. The main reason of the success of that tactic is the lack of effective MGs, therefor infantry can just run over open ground without taking too much damage even if there is MG fire.

That changed dramatically in CMBB, in CMBO you'll have to live with it. A tactical loss would be a good result for me .

[ June 21, 2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: moneymaxx ]

[Slappy]

Hindsight is always clear, but here are the ways I would have gone differently.

I personally think the Jackson is overkill and would have gone with a Firefly. Similarly, I probably would have gone with a smaller calibre of artillery to get more shells. I'm also not a big fan of onboard mortars in BO, although I swear by them in BB. This allocation would free up points for more guns to round out the defense.

Your AT capability would have been overall about the same, more barrels and therefore more robust but less mobile and so more prone to breakthrough. Smaller artillery would have given you more lasting power, but probably netted fewer kills. That said, shattered SMGs are as good as dead SMGs for the final push. 105mm artillery is probably good enough on the defense and you gain little from VT if the target is in woods. Smoke from anything larger that 81mm is a complete waste.

In all, this would have given more staying power to the defense and might have allowed you to hang on.

[flamingknives]

Use of British support tanks would have helped - I thought that you were just playing Yanks.

6pdrs are quite sufficient for killing most Axis armour short of KTs and heavy TDs, provided they have some 'T' rounds.

[JasonC]

Besides misplaying the Jackson I guess, the only problem I see is you had more TRP than shells to toss at them. A second 3 inch mortar would have helped marginally - you had the HMC though I guess. 2x4.5 inch FOs would have helped.

Understand, a 5.5 inch standard (not VT) is only 138 points worth of arty. It is hard to make only 9% of the cost of the attacking force your main weapon. Yes TRPs and VT multiply the effect, but as you saw you can still plain run out of ammo.

Another thing is you have to follow up the TRP arty strikes with short rushes by your infantry whenever you can, to turn momentary breakage into kills or lasting rout. His infantry is most vunerable right after a pasting. Give them 5 minutes unmolested and half of them will come back.

Last, you might consider an AP minefield, 4-5 tiles of it, placed ahead of a critical infantry position. Think things that increase in effectiveness the tighter the group that rushes you.

[Redwolf]

I think the VT modules was a fine choice and suggest (pardon me) it wasn't optimzally used. Treebursts are too rare and limit where you can aim. I also think the Jackson is by far the better hoice than a firefly on the defense. It has better HE, the faster turret (IIRC) and is substancially cheaper.

The SMG swarm in CMBO can only be hold with HE fire, and lots of it. For offboard big mortars (but not the British 4.5") and VT do fine.

But onboard is better. The 105mm howitzer on-board is essential. The 25 pdr sucks from its rate of fire in CMBO, unfortunately and unrealistically (onboard and off-board).

Another mistake was to use the M8 HMC to battle tanks, they should have operated against the infantry as long as it goes. The Jackson should not have decisivly engaged the attacking Panzers, instead it should have limited the Panzers freedom to move and thereby both protecting the M8 HMCs and forcing him to send his infantry way ahead of the Panzer and into the claws of the M8 HMCs.

I am surprised your opponent chose SMG squads and Pz IVs.

You rbiggest mistakle was probably to ask us for American forces when you could choose from both

[MAsta_KFC]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Another mistake was to use the M8 HMC to battle tanks, they should have operated against the infantry as long as it goes. The Jackson should not have decisivly engaged the attacking Panzers, instead it should have limited the Panzers freedom to move and thereby both protecting the M8 HMCs and forcing him to send his infantry way ahead of the Panzer and into the claws of the M8 HMCs.

Yes, afterwards when we were having a chat, he pointed out that was one of my mistakes. Originally, that was what I was doing, but then I got a tad over confident, due to the M8HMC vs PV4G battle victory, and paid for it.

Redwolf, why are you surprised he used SMG + PV4 combo? Is that not a common force?

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by MAsta_KFC:

Redwolf, why are you surprised he used SMG + PV4 combo? Is that not a common force?

Well, historically or in CMBO?

In CMBO, the SMG squads are a must for cherry-picking or gameyness (that doesn't mean your opponent did that, but if he did, he'd chose SMG squads or Gebirgsjaegers or some brothers like that). The Pz IV on the other hand is very rarely cherry-picked, except maybe if you expect gazillions of M8 HMC. Its price is usually not considered competitive compared to Hetzer, StuH or Panzer IV/70, because the MGs are almost useless and the turret is expensive, vulnerable and hard to control.

Historically, Panzer IVs would only belong to Panzer divisions which had no SMG squads.

[Ligur]

I used to play Amis and Brits (Para's supported by tanks, gamey ) almost exclusively in CM:BO and once had a nice 30+ game unbeaten streak.

In my games the QB armor rules by, hmm, was it Fionn Kelly were used very often so people were not always buying Tigers, Panthers or Super Pershings.

In retrospect I think this helped me a lot since I had to deal with StuG's, PZIV's and such more often than the big cats.

I used masses of intantry and artillery to win. Infantry are kick ass in CMBO, you can just draw a line to your enemy and use "fast" to get there. They hardly get any suppression compared to CMBB and shoot back running full speed at the same time.

1) Locate enemy

2) Shell enemy with artillery

3) While shelling move your infantry in a box around your enemy

4) Reduce enemy with massed infantry fire

[Ron]

I think the selection of the HMCs was very creative and astute on your part, though you unnecessarily handicapped yourself in other areas IMO, namely arty and AT. An infantry rush, whether SMG or Rifle, isn't especially difficult to counter once you have experienced it a couple times, the key being good intel and flexibility.

A revised version of your Force selection could look like this:

1 Brit Para Coy

1 Brit Para Plt

2 4.2" FOs

2 HMCs

3 6 pndr AT guns

3 TRPs

The one Plt can act as your forward screen, indentifying the enemy's intent and force. The HMCs and arty can act as your 'mobile' fire response to any enemy concentration. The AT guns and Piats will act to destroy and/or separate the enemy's armour. In a larger size game, a few AFVs, ie tank destroyers, will serve well in an integrated defense, but in a smaller one I don't believe it is very cost effective.

All the best,

Ron