WineCape Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 is there just to little Grog info floating around for the next CM game regarding these stats in seconds, i.e. how long it takes for the turret of a specific AFV do the full rotation. Or is the existing "Very fast, fast, medium" etc. considered enough of an aproximation for BTS/BFC? Sincerely, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- </font>Sponsor of the (now infamous) Invitational (Ari Maenpaa)</font>Sponsor of the 2 WineCape Tourneys (Fangorn’s Brazilian customs drank the wine prize up! + KiwiJoe)</font>Sponsor of the Nordic Championships in honor of Nabla (His scoring system revolutionized CM tourney play)</font>RoW I/II/III/~ tourney sponsor (Wreck/Ali+Kanonier+Jon_L/~)</font>Grateful donateur to the drinking habits of BTS (Baldy received the Fat Bastard Chardonnay!)</font>”Thank You” donation send to Manx (He used to run the “sexiest CMBO modsite on the net”)</font>Donation send to Team Boots & Tracks for their splendid RoW II scenarios</font>Donation send to Gordon Molek for his outstanding CMMOS utility (Thereby making the installing of CM mods a breeze)</font>Sponsor-to-be of Pengville’s “Gamey Bastard” tourney (In honor of Seanachai + Lars for showing an act of kindness to an outerboarder - Well, bribery does pay.)</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 "How many turrets would a turret turn, if a turret would but turn?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted February 1, 2003 Author Share Posted February 1, 2003 Did I confuse you Bruno? You certainly confused me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzertruppe Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Could be interesting but.............dang it would make for long turns trying to figure out which AFV gets the "drop" on the other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Turret turns depend on a lot of things in WW2. To name a few; Weight of turret. Hydraulics or nor. Electric or not. Quality of optics. Experience of crew. (some turrets you need big mussels to get it around) Inner command delay between commander and gunner to fire at a target. Loaders have to walk with the turret otherwise they get bogged in some turrets. Location of the ammo storage. I.e. for some tanks you will get the ammo out of the hull. Long or short barrel. So this are just a few and it is almost impossible to calculate them all. Or you must have a P IV 8 Ghz A leopard 2A5 turns the turret 360 in 9 seconds at the moment. For the average rotation times from a medium tank in WW2 you can take your doggy bag with you. And for the heavy ones your sleeping bag. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightblade Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Did some little tests and it seems like there are fixed times for the different turret speeds: All vehicles tested had to turn for 180°, Allied as well as Axis. Turret speed, time required: very fast, 7 sec fast, 13 sec medium, 16 sec slow, 22 sec very slow 30 sec Of course I don´t know where BFC took the data from, but the time for very slow turrets is probably from the Tiger as it is known that it took 60 sec for 360° with hydraulic support. With the hand cranks, probably each gunner was different, depending on too many factors (fitness, strength, tiredness, etc.). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Hey and may I suggest that if a turret rotates more than three times around in any direction it comes off and rolls down the front mantle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Hans wrote: ...may I suggest that if a turret rotates more than three times around in any direction it comes off and rolls down the front mantle. That would only effect the early war models, later versions had a lock washer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Ha, lock washer my eye. I have a photo around here of five Australians diggers an Italian Priest and two American 2nd Lieutenants trying to screw back on the turret of a Sherman, now where is that... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Newer combat vehicles use a finer thread. It takes 17 rotations to unscrew the top of a Bradley. (Boy you don't know how many new privates we get with that one. ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 That an getting a can of muzzle blast! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 Jaws, Brightblade, I realize there will be a lot of factors involved, even among the same type of tanks but with different quality crews. Question is, do the well-known authors on ground combat warfare during WWII (and after) have any figures on rotation speeds at all published? Or are the rotation speeds almost non-usable: i.e.rotation speeds are so dependant on crew quality that each tank (same type) will always have different rotation speeds and thus it is not worth simulating to a higher degree than what it already is in CM? If simulated more closely than the current "Very fast, fast" for all tanks, it will make for more "interesting" and realistic tank duels, obviously modified by crew quality. Ahh, so many requests on one man. Poor Charles, he has his work cut-out now for the next 15 years... Sincerely, WineCape 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I have seen some Ubergrog books that do show such technical things as rotation speed. Unfortunatly there only seem to be such figures on the glory vehicles. Perhaps the only way to really find out is to get hold of the actual technical manuals for the vehicles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Some vehicles it's quite variable. The King Tiger for example had a hydraulic traverse that varied with the RPMs of the engine. At the maximum allowable 3000 RPM it apparently was capable of 360 degree traverse in under 10 seconds. At 2000 RPM it could do it in 19 seconds. This doesn't really match the measurements Brightblade took at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightblade Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Problem with most German hydaulic supported turrets was that they only worked while the tanks didn´t move. It´s described in the Tigerfibel, there were even two gears, one for fast traversing, one for slow. But they don´t say anything about the actual rotation speed. When tank was moving, or if the hydraulic didn´t work, there were only the hand cranks. On the other hand, as German tanks had no gyro stabilizers, they stopped if they wanted to engage enemy tanks. Shots while the tank was moving were usually only meant to pin the enemy while the tank moved to the next cover or hull down position. So it would be better if tanks without gyro stabilizers wouldn´t fire at all while moving. About the King Tiger, I also read somewhere that its turret was quite fast. If the hydraulic was working. I don´t know why BFC decided that the KT has a slow turret in CM. Maybe this should somehow take into account the much longer time it took to traverse the turret manually, while moving or when the hydraulic wasn´t working. Maybe not. As it was stated several times in this forum that BFC didn´t tweak units to be more balanced but made them as realistic as they could, I assume that this possible answer can be excluded. [ February 03, 2003, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 So it seems that the "current 5-speed settings" for turret rotation speeds are still going to be the best aproximation for the next release of CM. Just too many factors involved to set an arbitralily x-second turn for each AFV's turret based on some (rather scanty) grog info out there. Oh well, I suppose testing the penetration abilities of the glory AFV's after WWII were more interesting than turret speeds... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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