Axis Attack circa 1941

[cyberlettuce]

Hi i was wondering if anyone had any advise conserning using the axis as an attacking force around 1941 (when they were apparently tearing the throat out of the soviets).

iv mainly been running quick battles at around 1000 points, mainly regular forces for both sides, combined arms both sides.

i generally use tank hunter teams, sharpshooters and/or split squads for reconaissence. following with spotters, machine guns, infantry then tanks.

im finding that im generally totally outgunned armour wise (which can grind the whole advance to a halt) and also so nasty placement of guns can really mess with the advance as well.

i tend to find that the soviet armour at this time is both cheaper and to a certain extent more effective(t-34, kv-1) (although i was pleased to knockout a t-34 with a p38t)

iv tryed bringing in towed at-guns and infantry guns to try to account for the armour and some strong points with some success but it generally depends largely on the terrain.

id appreciate any tips and advise that anyone can give...

[ November 08, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: cyberlettuce ]

[Zimorodok]

well, I'm no grog, but from what I've read here and in other places, generally, German armor was not running into KV's and T-34's too often. There are a number of reasons:

[*] Kv's we're reserved to units for reducing fortified positions and were, tactically, sprinkled through infantry divisions in small groups, not as part of armored divisions.

[*] T-34's were not at the front lines for the first couple of weeks. When they were encountered, both T-34's and KV's were a nasty surprise (as I'm sure you've discovered).

[*] Although the rarity factor per region for both series of heavier tanks isn't extreme (which represents the overall rarity throughout a very large section of Russia...), the smaller T-26 and BT series tanks were encountered far more often and were much easier for the German's to handle.

[*] Generally, whenever possible, the Germans struck at Infantry units with Armored units, not at other armored units. Armor-to-Armor slugfests were avoided.

Your choice of Regular vs. Regular is somewhat accurate though. I would even go more towards Green troops on both sides, perhaps with 50% regulars on the German side. There hadn't been much chance for a lot of units to gain veteran status (sure, there were some German units with Polish/French/Balkan experience, but certainly not all of them) The entire Red Army wasn't conscripts either.

Zim

p.s. I'll be editing this post with references as soon as I go look them up.

[ November 08, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Zimorodok ]

[JasonC]

When the Russians had T-34s in any numbers, the Germans did not attack there. They went to a tactical defense while attacking elsewhere. Most of the Russian 1941 armor fleet were T-26s, and most of the rest were BT series tanks. All light enough to be KOed by 37mm AP, the main armament of all but the smallest German AFVs and the standard PAK of the infantry. Even 20mm AP in Pz IIs can hurt them from a flank or close enough.

Sometimes the Russians had a small number of KVs or T-34s in a place where the Germans were attacking with armor. The Germans could deal with them either by using towed guns or by just overwhelming them with what I call "hail fire". In CM terms, keep firing AP at them from so many shooters that you accumulate gun damage and immobilization results, and the crews will bail out.

The early model T-34s available in 1941 can also be killed by front turret penetrations by the 50L42 in the better German mediums. When you outnumber them seriously this is not that hard to do. You want a hull down duel between one T-34 and a whole platoon of Pz IIIs with 50L42, with the range 900m or less and preferably under 500m.

The towed gunned solutions to the KV were the 88 Flak and the 105mm gun (not howitzer, and not represented in CM) used direct. Against T-34s, those also work obviously, but so does the much more common 105mm howitzer, even with just HE let alone HEAT.

In the real deal they also have 150mm howitzers firing direct - in CM only the 150mm sIG is represented, and it is a much lower velocity gun without nearly the AP ability. A near miss by 150mm can still easily immobilize. They can also be killed by bombs from Stukas, or killed or damaged by large caliber indirect HE (not efficient, but can happen).

Last, pioneer infantry can kill them if they get close enough. This generally only keeps them away from woods or towns you already control, however, as it is not easy to close with them if they are well handled. The AI is often clumsy enough with them that pioneers can do the job, however. The agent can be flamethrower or demo charge, in either case delivered inside 30m by a squad in cover and unpinned. In the early war period before fausts appear, the pioneers are far better at KOing tanks than tank hunter teams.

Against the T-34s in particular, there are additional weapons that can help. The 28-20mm squeeze bore ("heavy AT rifle" in CMBB) can penetrate the turret front with a flat enough hit out to around 500m. It is also quite stealthy and can afford to fire away at that range without much fear of detection by a buttoned tank. The 50mm PAK can also kill through the turret, and through the hull flank provided the side angle is not high. These are easier for the T-34s to spot in turn, however.

As for general German attacking tactics, you should scout with half squads. Sharpshooters are better used as range "overwatch" weapons, to pin enemy guns and MGs as they open fire. Tank hunters are expensive to get just 2 men and early on a pioneer platoon is a better way to get infantry AT ability.

Follow up the scouts with infantry in platoon strength, to outshoot single defenders, and to absorb fire by having the shot unit halt to rally while the rest continue their advance. The goal is to press infantry to within about 200m of the selected portions of the enemy defense, to ID defender positions, locate firing guns and MGs, and suppress them all a bit with LMGs and rifles.

Cut off the part of the defense you intend to attack with MG fire lanes over open ground areas. These can come from HMGs in cover 100-200m behind your infantry (at such range and in cover, they are perfectly safe from small arms replies), or from tanks or light armor. You want to keep additional defenders from coming to help, and also to prevent escape, or to cut up by fire any that run away.

The defenders will interfer with your approaching light armor and infantry, especially by using guns and MGs. You need to silence those as they open up with your own heavy weapons. Tanks use their HE for this. The 75mm HE in StuGs and Pz IVs is particularly good at it; 50mm HE in Pz IIIs is OK; lighter stuff will only pin things.

Use 81mm mortars (on map, used for 1 minute on 1 target) and snipers for it as well. You can get additional direct fire HE from towed guns, if the enemy is visible from start up positions or you an reposition them with 1-2 halftracks (e.g. 75mm infantry guns). Don't waste these weapons on the ordinary Russian squads until you know you've dealt with their guns and MGs.

Instead, once an area has been cut off by MGs and had its "long range teeth" "pulled" by your heavy weapons, you are ready to work that area over with indirect HE from your FOs, and to send your infantry into the aftermath. Support them with all available armor, using their MGs in particular to suppress anyone who returns fire. Move infantry through the position, pausing to gang up on any holdout with a whole platoon. Let your armor and MGs cut up any that try to run.

Then select another portion of the enemy force. Repeat. You can plan beforehand the sequence you intend for all of these moves, based on your read of the ground and where the objectives are, or you can adapt to what you find of the enemy defenses. Just don't take them all on at once.

The simplest version of this would be a "wing attack", where you take on the right or left half of the defenders with essentially your whole force. Only a few MGs and a vehicle or two tie down the other wing, without pressing. You can instead narrow that into a turning movement by attacking along an edge, 1/4 of the board width or so, then turning toward the flags at right angles to the start line. You rarely want to try two prongs at the CM scale.

Have the armor stay in whole platoons, or at least pairs in small fight. Keep it behind the leading infantry in all but wide open ground. Don't advance it until you need to in order to get LOS.

Have the infantry attack in a formation at least 2 platoons deep. You can go as narrow as 2 platoons abreast each with 2 squads forward and 2 behind them (total frontage 4 squads), with all other platoons trailing these "leaders" in column. The point is depth rather than width, before finding the defense, to run over only a narrow portion of the defense and use all available cover along that route. Widen out only opposite a targeted area you intend to munch as describe above.

Try it. Against all but the Russian uber tanks I think you will find it works pretty well. Against those, you either want armor force type amounts of armor against combined arms (then hail fire), or to defend using numerous guns (28-20, 50 PAK, 105 howitzer, 88). In the last case use your armor as bait until your guns get most of them, then hail fire the last survivors one at a time.

[BigDork]

Dang JasonC, I don't know how you have time to play considering how long your posts always are.

I recently read on a web site that even one or two KVs in an area could bring an advance to a halt while the Germans either found a way around or waited for something that could KO the KVs to arrive. I think it was at battlefield.ru but I'm not too sure.

[cyberlettuce]

thanks very much for the feedback everyone. i shall try your suggestions and see how things come out.

oh and what senario's typify this period of the war well?

[Sergei]

Originally posted by cyberlettuce:

oh and what senario's typify this period of the war well?

When Germany began the attack on 22nd of June, the Soviets were taken by surprise and for weeks were unable to fight back effectively due to unpreparadness, wrong deployment, Axis air superiority and general backwardness (lack of field radios etc.). This led to the initial successes, most of which won't translate into CM very well. Some exceptions, where the Soviets fought as a coherent force and numbers were relatively even, did exist of course, but usually the Germans had the freedom of going around any stubborn defense and beat the living **** out of the defenders by use of artillery and bombers.

In the next phase the Germans still had the initiative, but Soviets were starting to recover from the surprise and were able to make some limited counter-attacks. Also the autumn weathers, with muddy roads and difficult flight weather, started hampering the German advance, which was already strained by the long periods of no rest and refit.

And then there is the winter period, where roads were solid again, but the German gamble for a decision in the East failed as the Red Army could muster more and more reserves, totally stalling the attackers and finally going for counter-offensive in 1942 (which wasn't very successful). This and the previous type are very well present in scenarios.

But I don't want to name any particular scenarios. Just go over to The Scenario Depot, search CMBB scenarios and set year as 1941 and historicality as 'historical'. You should get well over a hundred hits.

[cyberlettuce]

thankyou sergie ill go take a look at the senario depot

[Pzman]

At the scenario depot the scenario design group I am a memeber of has just finished 24 battles covering Operation Barbarossa. Although it does cover a number of the encounters between Soviet Heavy tanks you will also find a good number of the T-26's.

If you want to try these look for battles titled CSDT-B then then 1 though 24. Or you can download the pack from our website.