German Pioneer Squad

[Fossiili]

Originally posted by Andreas:

I have no doubt that both Hungarians and Finns (being at least linguistically related) are very adept at using Molotov cocktails.

Yes, we Finns used molotov cocktails first in Winter War 1939-40 against the Russians.

("We ..." I was only 6 years on that time.)

[Gen. J-sun]

I GOT IT!!! I think I've figured how a molotov is less effective than a grenade!! Heres the experiment...get a friend (prefferably drunk) buy a 20.oz soda. Open the top and throw it at him (THE BOTTLE!) and then pick up a rock (one the size of your fist shold do) throw it!!!(the rock) AND notice how he dodges the rock, and if it hits him...run!! Remember he is drunk he'll never catch you...they can't even walk straight

[Philippe]

But is soda one of the ingredients in a Molotov? I can see how a rock would be a good surrogate for a hand grenade (with or without throwing handle), but I'm not sure if Diet Pepsi is a good gasoline substitute. It may not have quite the same aerodynamic properities when you set a match to it. And a soldier is much less likely to drink it.

[Gen. J-sun]

Ya..I can imagine drinking lit gas talk about heart burn :eek: . BTW If he gets sprayed with Pepsi consider him dead...painfully dead

[murphus]

I don't know if any of you have seen a real molotov in action. I did once, at a riot in London. It broke over the windscreen of a police van, then burned for about 15 seconds. The police crew were what they call in CM "SHOCKED" and backed away. But no damage was done to the van. If a van isn't damaged by a molotov how can a Tiger get tanked?

By the way, I didn't throw the molotov. I was just watching.

[Krautman]

I think you had to throw a molotov cocktail down the tank's exhaust pipes in order to be effective. If you could find a weak spot you might immobilize the tank. MIGHT...

[throwdjohn]

Andreas pointed out what I did in my post on molotovs, that is, they were for the most part ineffective. And for the person who said a russki SMG is ALMOST as good as any german squad, you are wrong. However, it brings up an interesting point. It occurs mostly with Eye-ties in AK but to a lesser extent in BB. I am reffering of course the infantry suckieness. Are german squads better than russki squads of same experience and roughly same weapons?

[Sergei]

Originally posted by throwdjohn:

Are german squads better than russki squads of same experience and roughly same weapons?

No. It's all about the weapons mix (and the resulting firepower at a given range) and experience (and leadership bonuses). Actually, for most of the war, Russian squads are better armed (and bigger) than their German counterparts.

[throwdjohn]

OK, it just seemed as if it were harder to move Italian and Russian infantry squads than german or anglo/american. I love the smart people in here, theyr'e so derned helpful.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Krautman:

I think you had to throw a molotov cocktail down the tank's exhaust pipes in order to be effective.

Based on what I have read (rumors to the contrary, I wasn't there), the idea was to have it land on the tank's rear deck so that the burning fuel would drip down through the ventilation louvers or other openings into the engine compartment and start a merry blaze there. Getting some into the fighting compartment would also have been nice, although more difficult, because there were lots of ignitable things there too, including crew and ammo.

Michael

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Based on what I have read (rumors to the contrary, I wasn't there), the idea was to have it land on the tank's rear deck so that the burning fuel would drip down through the ventilation louvers or other openings into the engine compartment and start a merry blaze there. Getting some into the fighting compartment would also have been nice, although more difficult, because there were lots of ignitable things there too, including crew and ammo

Pre-war, Finns thought of it as a means of blinding the tank so that the infantry can get closer with explosives. It was noticed however that Russian tanks had very vulnerable engines. Counter-measures were then developed, and a T-34 or Panther probably had better protected engine than T-26 or T-28.

This is an excellent article on the topic:

http://ankkurinvarsi.com/jaeger/OTHER_AT_WEAPONS1.htm

[MikeyD]

the radial engine Sherman and the Churchill were specifically designed to be properly protected against molotovs. The Sherman had a sloped engine deck, with a cover for the engine grate tucked back under the turret bustle. Flaming gas would just drain off. The Churchill had no engine louvers at all on the rear deck and the side sponsons had a sheet metal hood over the air intakes. About the same protection on a pzIV, I suppose. But Panther, Tiger, and Pershing engine bays were pretty much open to the sky. The louvered engine decks offered as much protection as venetian blinds offer to an open window.

[Krautman]

But it seems the designers had been careless about the Sherman's otherwise protection from fire... "Tommykocher" ("Tommy-cookers")the germans called them iirc... and didn't their own crews call them "Ronsons" after a cigarette lighter?

Or was that radial engine Sherman a new improved version?

[Akula2]

Originally posted by Krautman:

But it seems the designers had been careless about the Sherman's otherwise protection from fire... "Tommykocher" ("Tommy-cookers")the germans called them iirc... and didn't their own crews call them "Ronsons" after a cigarette lighter?

Or was that radial engine Sherman a new improved version?

I believe that referred to a flamethrowing varient commonly used in the PTO.

Ronson made the flamethrowers or the fuel IIRC and the nickname seems to have loosely applied to any flamethrower at all.

Another case of American slang.

[Philippe]

I thought the American slang was "Zippo" and the British slang was "Ronson".

[throwdjohn]

Actually, akula, "ronson" was not a specific kind. Also, americans might have used zippo, seeing as it is a more american brand, though i have heard americans use "ronson"

[MikeyD]

Hmmm... I thought 'Ronson' was derogatory German comment on Sherman flammability, while 'Zippo' was an affectionate nickname for a whole series of flamethrower vehicles. Both named after cig lighters.

I seem to have better luck (or worse, depending on which side I'm playing) with molotov's than the rest of you. A couple well aimed molotovs will panic a PzIV. Admittedly, it doesn't do much good hitting the road in front of a moving tank, though - where 50% of my shots seem to land. And it doesn't compare with a nice hefty sachel charge!