willebra Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 If the allies execute an LC gambit on turn two, they are likely to need three French armies, both the british and the french airfleet and a battleship (two carriers can be needed also, same goes with the british bomber if it hasn't been disbanded). The question is how do you man all hexes on the border of the Rhine in a second turn LC gambit? France can purchase one corps on the first turn, if it disbands a battleship. British ground troops cannot make it to the Rhine-border on the second turn. One hex remains unmanned. An option would be to either disband the french airfleet and buy an additional corps or to simply put the airfleet in the last hex which cannot be covered (usually eastern Ardennes). As the french airfleet would fall out of the battle in both cases, the chances of a succesful gambit decreases. Of course, if the allied player is overly lucky, he won't need the last french army, which would then be available to cover the last hex on the border (or occupy the city). Another option would be to not attack with a battleship and transport the british corps outside of Brussels on the first turn (to be used for occupying the city on the second). British troops can use the port on turn two, only if the French send a corps next to the port after the city garrison has fallen (so this won't increase the amount of troops available to man the border). Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willebra Posted July 14, 2004 Author Share Posted July 14, 2004 I performed some testing regarding the gambit. I performed the gambit ten times against the AI. There was one intercepting AF. I attacked in the following order (for the purpose of the testing): - 3 armies - battleship - french af - british af - british bomber - two carriers - french corps (was needed only once) 6 times out of 10, Brussels falled prior the use of the carriers. 3 times out of 10, the carriers were required to kill of the corps (and they succeeded). 1 time out of 10, a french corps was sent to attack the garrison from the river east of Brussels (and it succeeded...). In this case, the British corps was transported to occupy the city. Note, that AFs were placed in cities so that their supplies were 10 (is there some other benefit?). French armies were stationed as close to Paris as possible, so that their supplies were as high as possible. One carrier attacked from London-port (after being moved there), the battleship was moved to position for attack from London-port (thus 100% readiness). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Do a search, this has been discussed many times. I can tell you this though, an experienced opponent will usually be prepared to counter the turn 2 LC Gambit, unlike the AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Well, you can simply disband two battleships and the french airfleet turn 1. Buy an HQ. Put an english corps besides Bruessel ready to disembark... Attack with 1-2 french army... If needed with with the english corps or third army ... one airstrike should be enough to finish of the defenders...=> 2 carriers as a reserve You can although disband the bomber in turn one to buy additional english corps. If you need to fill out the line put the french HQ on a fortress hex. Important to fill the hex, east of Bruessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I didn't see this mentioned, so I will point out for newer players confused about LC gamit: in most games you cannot LC gambit in turn 2 simply because in his turn 2 Axis player has already occupied Brussels.... You can try to LC gambit on turn 1 but this is usually foolish unless the Axis player is totally unprepared. (i.e moved EVERYTHING east) - you cannot properly defend the entire French front and also attack LC in the first turn... FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_S Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 For me it seems as too risky to perform the lc gambit, you tend to over stretch yourself setting up the axis player for a massive breakthrough. The only real benefit as I see it is that you get the plundered mpp's. I prefer to hold a line all the way to the English channel and when it appears France is lost to then transport as many French troops to the UK so as to make them Free French, this way it is simple to fend of any invasion of the UK, also,once Germany becomes occupied elsewhere you already have an invasion force for Norway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_S Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 While I am here, anyone fancy a TCP/IP game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 hi Tony, against an inexperienced Axis player the LC gambit wins the game every time. Against expert Axis players it can sometimes backfire. Glad you are enjoying human play, welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 hey vetrans, regarding the Gambit - what are your opinions on who to give the plunder to: France or UK? I always let the UK take it but I know Sombra allows France to occupy Brussels... I can see pros and cons to each... comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Originally posted by Friendly Fire: hey vetrans, regarding the Gambit - what are your opinions on who to give the plunder to: France or UK? I always let the UK take it but I know Sombra allows France to occupy Brussels... I can see pros and cons to each... comments? It depends on your overall strategy and the current situation. Its a balancing act, like everything else having to do with the defense of France. I've seen people do it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Originally posted by Friendly Fire: hey vetrans, regarding the Gambit - what are your opinions on who to give the plunder to: France or UK? I always let the UK take it but I know Sombra allows France to occupy Brussels... I can see pros and cons to each... comments? Advantages if France takes LC are. You can buy youself some nice toys. Tank for Bruessel for example and you build very rapidly a defense for southern france if necessary. If you have to carry over all the troops from britain these are extra costs. Advantages for GB: You can spend early much money to build up your AFs. Disadvantage is simply you still have to ferry over troops to France. Since I intend to stay in France a LONG time I prefer giving LC to France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosevelt45(the 2nd) Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 I would also give it to France, since they need it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Here's the deal. If your playing a good SC player and playing Fall Weiss(original version), you cannot hold France. However you can delay and that's the key.....delay so UK can get jets and LR first. Now if you want to have a chance as Allies, make no mistake, its about Jets and LR so you need to get tech invested early. Where do you get that tech MPPs from? Anywhere you can and that means LC gambit. So who's going to get the plunder? NO!!!! not the ghostbusters(french) .. UK. But,...a good SC player won't let you get LC on turn 2. [ July 18, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosevelt45(the 2nd) Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 That's true but how do you delay the fall of France? By giving them more mpp's!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 You're right R45, it is about MPPs, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Look at the total asset value of the French at game start, focus it on one idea, let the UK fill the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 A tank fully entrenched in Paris with a wall of cheap corps in front of it can seriously delay the axis. The Uk can chip in with air and naval units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Originally posted by SeaMonkey: However you can delay and that's the key.....delay so UK can get jets and LR first. Now if you want to have a chance as Allies, make no mistake, its about Jets and LR so you need to get tech invested early. Well why on earth do I want to help the axis in their research. ? I am for a fast follower strategy. Buy airfleets first invest in research later Same game different strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Sombra, If you truly want to save France or seriously delay Axis, ultimately winning the original "Fall Weiss" campaign(no bid) which is the epitome of SC accomplishment IMO, get UK Jets 1 or 2 before Paris falls and see what happens. It has happened. See... Kurt knows the scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I use to try to get tech for the UK as early as I could especially Jets. I have changed my thinking and no longer invest in Jets for the UK for awhile because I think it only helps the Germans advance in Tech faster. There was a thread on this by Dragonheart some time ago, I will find it - found it and will bumb it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by SeaMonkey: Sombra, If you truly want to save France or seriously delay Axis, ultimately winning the original "Fall Weiss" campaign(no bid) which is the epitome of SC accomplishment IMO, get UK Jets 1 or 2 before Paris falls and see what happens. It has happened. See... Kurt knows the scheme. How many times you will get an adavance in JT in time to make a difference? On the other hand mostly disadvantages: Invest in tech is "dead" money during France. IMHO it is better spend to mantain your airfleets at maximum readiness. Buying a new airfleet or buying corps. Even if you have early advantages in JT. What real startegic advantage do you have until USA and Rusia join? Axis will spend money on JT and catch up real fast destroying Rusia even faster with adavanced jets, in case of sealion you have to deinvest your chits, buying additional airfleets are really expensive with JT, replacing looses/ replacing AFs for GB are really expensive. Winning against the axis without a bid. Well if you can do it than the axis commander did a really bad job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_S Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi guys, I always like to invest in Industrial Tech first, because when the Allies all club together they have greater mpps, in addition as Sombra was saying reinforcing Advanced aircraft costs a fortune especially when bogged under deffending France against the UK and US air fleets. With the Industrial Tech advance this makes it all the easier to continue pounding the Ruscies! :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by Curry: I use to try to get tech for the UK as early as I could especially Jets. I have changed my thinking and no longer invest in Jets for the UK for awhile because I think it only helps the Germans advance in Tech faster. There was a thread on this by Dragonheart some time ago, I will find it Exactly, Dragonheart discussed this first I believe. And he is probably right, early UK jets ain't that important IMHO. Not worth the risk of helping Germany to have level 4-5 when Barbarossa commence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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