Best way to take Russia?

[mavraam]

I was wondering if anyone had any tips for taking out Russia before the time expires. I've been able to get 6 tank groups surrounding a 4 hex area around Moscow with infantry securing a supply corridor and my air units and HQ's lagging behind before the demo's end but not actually take the city.

Anyone else have better luck?

What's the earliest anyone has taken Moscow?

[Sol Invictus]

My God your anxious, I havent even thought of attacking Russia in the demo. Plenty of time for that in a week or so.

[Speedy]

If you capture Moscow I expect the capital will simply move to another city, like the British capital moving to Manchester if you capture London.

[Guest Mike]

Yes - the capital shifts to the Urals.

You need to do 3 things:

1/ surround Moscow ASAP - this halves the Russian MPP rate and drastically cuts down on spare sorps garrisoning places like the Urals!!

2/ Capture Moscow

3/ Capture the Urals.

To do these you have to DRIVE your HQ's towards moscow and hte Urals ruthlessly, even if it means they are in the font line. Havign a really good HQ like Rommel in hte mix really helps.

Beta demo wisdom was to do it from the Baltic states - not sure what the Gold Demo wisdom is - the same if you can conquer the Baltics really quickly I gues 'cos the Sov's will be at war with you in 2-4 turns after you do that anyway!!

[Camicie Nere]

Mike is 100% correct on every point - especially the aggressive driving of HQs to the east. Don't be afraid of corps-sized russian units and those out of supply - I don't think they can really hurt them.

In beta you could surround Moscow, cut the MPPs and even take the UNDEFENDED Urals sometimes. Some call it "gamey", but methinks the Soviets would have been in a world of hurt in real life had the Wehrmacht besieged Moscow - hub of all their logistics and rail nets.

I have tried the Gold demo and it does not seem promising within the one year time frame. You still want the Baltics - hit them immediately as France is to fall. If you have not declared war on anyone else, you have time to get all your forces into place and reinforced before the USSR attacks you. Also, you will have Riga available into which to build new units. This is a couple turn tank drive away from Moscow, so it is vital.

The AI seems tweaked so as to make the Soviets tougher. I have REALLY enjoyed attacking the USSR the last few days - it is an excellent primer for ground combat, supply, HQs, etc.

I think the best 1940 strategy in the full version is to make a two-pronged advance. One to the north to threaten Moscow and draw off the Red reinforcements. And the other, with the majority of the armor, to the south. I honestly think there will not be a quick and easy Moscow/Urals/USSR surrenders option - unless you are playing on some insanely easy level of difficulty. I think you'll get bogged down and eventually outproduced in the east while the UK and eventual US start making mischief in the west. (Real life, anyone?)

So the southern drive is where the action will be. By tieing up the Reds with an infantry-heavy advance toward Moscow you can get room to roam with the panzers in the south. Cut off Kiev, Kharkov, etc with the tanks and bring up infantry, axis minors, and Italians to polish them off. You want to take at least one city in the Russian interior fairly quickly (since it will take 5 turns to rebuild to where you can build units into it).

I think a strong, methodical approach to the Caucasus will win it, albeit over about two years. Once you can bang an armor unit to the east edge of the map the Russian loses 50% MPP on all those resource hexes. Once you take them it is a matter of time and MPPs - you can beat the Bolshies at their own game by wearing them down with weight of production and numbers. This will also make you fairly unbeatable when the time comes to seek reckoning with the west - your 700-odd MPPs per turn and absolutely secure eastern flank will bode severely ill for the future of the free world.

[Randell Daigre]

BTW I played a demo game where I took Moscow, and the Russian capital moved to the Urals. I then took the Urals capital city, but it took me a few turns to do so (at least three turns, I don't remeber exactly how long). The Russians then moved their capital again, This time to Stalingrad. So be sure that you can take Moscow and the Urals in quick succession, or you may be SOL.

[Jollyguy]

In my opinion the only realistic way to play SC will be without the war in Siberia option. Russia's a tough nut to crack in the game, because it was in real life, and the arrival of the Far East units is necessary to reflect actual conditions.

As to the use of HQs in Russia or anywhere for that matter, I agree. In the game I just played, after taking France, and while preoccupied in Spain, I didn't support with a HQ my air force units that I was reinforcing in France, and the Brits took big chunks out of those poor flyboys a couple turns straight. That means in a real human vs. human game the German player will have to post an HQ in France at a cost of 400 something MPPs, otherwise suffer fair attrition from Allied raids. What's more, if the Brits are allowed a free hand in France to hit units and MPPs while the German is off romping elsewhere, the Brit airboys experience levels will go up, making them more potent, and also available to overstrength to 11, 12, etc. I've played games where experienced units can pay to be overstrength. They're much harder to stop.

Another thing I've been experimenting with as the German is attacking all Allied ground units as many times with as many different units whenever possible, even if I think their country will surrender the next turn. Reason is I want to see if it's worth the trade off in (minor) losses to the German to acquire better experience ratings. It also might be good to have certain units selected to be the main combat elements, to build up their experience ratings.

[Sol Invictus]

I am not entirely clear on the War in Siberia option. If you enable that option, does that mean that there is no possibility of Russia getting those far-east forces at all. I thought it just meant that there was a random chance that they would be transfered.

[mavraam]

Thanks for the help guys!

Yes the key seems to be to take the Baltic ASAP and use their capital as a staging area for Moscow. It also increases the importance of Finland as they can tie up some key units and help clear a corridor to Moscow. I was able to take Moscow easily (I think September '40).

I've found a new (at least for me) use for the two German destroyers in the north. I take them east and support Finland by taking out the Russian ships that are bombardint the coast. Then I come back west and re-establist the blockaed from Norway's capital.

Great tip!

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

I spend most of my time in the demo doing 2 things, the differnt ways of subjugating england, and coming up with new ways to invade russia. Heres my favorite:

1. Invade tht baltic states on the 3rd turn.

2.Following the conquest of france, move EVERYTHING to the east, leaving a corps in every city in the west.

3. Purchase rommel, and manstein. With the other 2 HQ's space them evenly about the border w/ russia.

4. I use a 4 pronged attack. My 'armee group south' consisting of 3 tanks, an army, and a luftflotte, cut off the troops in the ukraine, and take the resources north of the crimea and aouthe of smolensk.

5.Army group center, 3 armies and 1 tank 1 fighter, attack the soviet infantry from the front while the 1 tank circles behind, cutting them off, this distrcts the main bulk of soviet troops.

6. Army group nord consisting of 2 corps, 2 armies, and a tank. Cut off leningrad. and attack its southern flank.

7. Army group Mannerheim (nice touch eh?) AKA, the finnish army is used as the lid on the northern flank. Their isthmus army and helsinki corps support the attack on leningrad and thier northern corps' job is to out flank the soviets north of lake lodoga, moving on towards the urals. This should be easy, as the soviets will be moving their northern forces to support leningrad.

8. The bulk of soviet troops move to army group center to try to slow thier advance, meanwhile, army group south, fresh off the capture of kiev, moves north, whil army group north goes south, cutting off the main bulk of soviets and had a clear shot at moscow.

9. th HQ's are key, 3 army groups, 4 Hq's there- fore, one of them is helping the luftwaffe. They are the backbone of the advance on moscow.

10. Leningrad is the gateway to moscow, after its capture, the northern road to the capital is clear of nuisances. That will give you a base of supply, and a jumping off point for forces heading for moscow, and the urals.

Phew, im spent, any thoughts?

CVM

[J Wagner]

One of the problems with attacking units simply to gain experience is that inevitably you have to restore your strength points. Doing this will then reduce your experience...has anyone taken the time to see if the loss negates the original gain? It would be a shame if you are taking one step forward two steps back....perhaps a future option might provide you with a choice of purchasing "green" or "experienced" troops to replace losses. The "experienced" troops would be more expensive, but you would not have as great an experience loss to your army.