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Time for a break?

Comrade Trapp

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But all the whining about how bad BF is getting thats the only thing that bothers me. I think its fine lol. Maybe I just enjoy watching grown men fight.

Making another forum...at first i thought it was a bad idea but maybe that forum is where all the BF members can fight at and this one for real posts about the game?

This really has nothing to do with the dicussion at hand, they were two completely different issues. In fact, the whole disagreement with Battlefront has been for the most part resolved. I even went as far as giving them credit for the way they have run things lately in my original post.

As for the new board (Strategic Command HQ), it worked out for both sides. Battlefront's SC forum is used for strictly SC on-topic dicussions while Strategic Command HQ is used for the more off-topic dicussions between members. Not only can you have off-topic dicussions, you can also dicuss other war games that are not products of Battlefront.

While I would rather not have all this bull**** fighting in SCHQ, I think it would be better if this disagreement between Zapp, Terif, and everyone else involved was dicussed over there and not on Battlefront. All its doing is scareing away the newer guys over here and Les is right when he says it hurting the reputation of the Battlefront SC forum.

Comrade Trapp

[ November 18, 2003, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: Comrade Trapp ]

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Curry was right, its more immaturity than anything else.

ErrantRecce1 offerred an opinion on a situation. The number of posts he has made, the amount of time he has been a member, none of that is important. Is it any wonder that some feel its not worth the effort to post?

And on another subject, all of this talk about SC "dying" is drawing the wrong conclusions. What has died, as someone else pointed out, is the competitive league. It died when it was the Ladder. Zapp brought it back as Z-League, but that has died.

Any of you that have been around long enough, realize that all games go thru phases with competitive players... thats all you are seeing right now. Most competitive players are the new ones who are attracted to the game and get involved in competition play, cause its the easiest way to get a game. In the US, that competitive group is on the downswing, but in Europe probably Japan, where the game has just been released, its on the upswing.

Too bad that most Americans can't speak a second language, which includes myself (though I can obtain certain "favors" in four different languages, as can most former military).

There is another type of player, one that plays the game because he/she appreciates it for what it is. These players will play over and over, not stopping until a new release comes out. That community is going strong in SC, but its members are mainly silent.

Speaking of which, it would be nice of those constant players had a way of ranking, somewhat similar to the way you obtain Chess rankings. Heck, if we stick with the military theme, we could even rank them as...





JerseyJohn, you're the resident Chess expert that I'm aware of (since others of you may be as well). Maybe you can give a brief explanation of what you have to do to obtain Master, Grand Master rankings in Chess... maybe we can figure some way of doing it in SC.

Anyway, thats enough from me. I've got work that I have to get back to.

[ November 18, 2003, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ]

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ErrantRecce1 offerred an opinion on a situation. The number of posts he has made, the amount of time he has been a member, none of that is important.
On most SC-related subjects I agree with you, it doesn't matter. But when it comes to something like this I think the number of posts and amount of time here does matter. He knows nothing about history of the situation at hand, therefore he doesn't fully understand it. I know we're not going to agree on this so I'm going to leave it at that.

The only person I regret telling to stay out of it is Blashy, because he has become a frequent poster on the SC forum and has earned the right to get involved. So to him, I apologize, but to him only.

And on another subject, all of this talk about SC "dying" is drawing the wrong conclusions. What has died, as someone else pointed out, is the competitive league. It died when it was the Ladder. Zapp brought it back as Z-League, but that has died.
In my opinion, at the time that thread was created, it was the community too. But as I stated earlier, that situation has been resloved. No one that I know of has said recently that they think SC is "dying", I hope that is a thing of the past.

Therefore I think we agree, while we may be going through a tough time at the moment with all the fighting and accusations, I don't think SC or the SC community is dying. I think once this fighting ends, things will begin to go back to normal. Discussions about SC and SC2 will begin again and within a few weeks I think we will have a new league up and going again (it has already been proposed by someone at SCHQ).

Comrade Trapp

[ November 18, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Comrade Trapp ]

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Honored to oblige -- and you're right, there are undoubtedly many fine chess players among us, I often see obscure chess terms emerging in game posts. smile.gif

There are different systems in different countries, but in the U. S. it runs something like this:

Amateur Tournament Players E thru A;

I'm not really sure if it starts at E, but I think that's the lowest. Needless to say few players remain there very long and I can't recall ever playing someone that low rated, so it's probably only there as a margin. Most non-tournament players would be in the D category, these are social players. When the Fischer boom happened in the early 70s U. S. chess tournaments became flooded with D players, much to the chagrin of the old hands, mainly because few of them had any sense of etiquette and most tended to be noisy and cavilier. Worse yet, they nearly all pretty lousy players, just cannon fodder for the more established guys.

In the internationally accepted Elo rating system, used in the U. S. as well, a player receives various numbers of points for beating different categories of players. At my peak I'd have gotten almost nothing for beating a B player but if I lost to one it cost me 32 hard earned rating points -- ouch! I'd have to beat the next ten of those guys to get it back.

Fortunately I didn't care much about my rating, unfortunately, most lower rated players used to have nervous habits at the board that annoyed the hell out of me and I always preferred playing masters. Even twelve year old masters tend to be very courteous and well behaved and abstain from annoying things like tapping their fingers on the board or feet under the table (some can't reach the floor, which is good!) or clicking pens -- all annoying stuff that can cause someone to lose their concentration. Eventually I wore earplugs and a visor in an effort to stay focused on the game; one of those twelve year old masters took to calling me the Hermit Crab so I dropped those items.

Anyway, getting back to what I was saying about ratings. The vast majority of Tournament players used to always be C players; I don't know if it's still distributed that way today, I haven't been active since 1988. C was between 1300 and 1599 rating points.

Becoming a B player was a good accomplishment, that in rating points was 1600 thru 1799. An A rating was the highest level of amateur, that was between 1800 and 1999; if you got their you had something to be proud of and I never took that group lightly. Also, they tended to behave themselves at the board, which I appreciated.

Between 2000 and 2199 is expert. For all intents and purposes these are the killers in most club tournaments. You know for sure a low expert is at the very least an over rated but strong A player, while other experts were really master stregnth, sometimes strong master, but might be erratic, losing too many games to A's and B's, keeping their rating lower than it should have been. The USCF experimented for a while, calling this group Candidate Master, the Russian term, but it went back to being expert. I always felt 2000-2099 should have been expert and 2100-2200 should have been Candidate Master, but that never went anywhere.

In the USCF anything over 2200 is a master. If you go above 2200, then drop under that line you're still considered a master though most tournaments have under prizes, so that player might qualify for the under 2200 prize despite what I just said.

There are built in safeguards to prevent someone from deliberately losing games to attain a lower rating, making himself a ringer in good cash tournaments. I think the rule is you can't go down more than 100 points from your peak rating. As these things go it's an outstanding rule. I used to always see guys playing as B players for cast prizes when everyone knew they were actually Soviet Candidate Masters -- literally letting the wolves mingle with the lambs!

Here the American system gives out different titles for higher USCF ratings and the number of years a person has been master or better, etc. & etc.. These days it doesn't count for much. Back in the good old days I befriended a kid who won a game against a greying icon of the New York scene. In the postmortem he was more than a little condescending so over a pizza I gave him a good lecture about how that guy was playing in the U. S. Championship against Bobby Fischer and Sam Reshevsky before he was even born, etc & etc.. With perfect thirteen year old logic he smirked and said, "Big deal, these days he really really sucks!" Guess I wasn't much of an example, I laughed my ass off, occasionally Frankenstein can be lovable.

So, that's about it for the American scene.

International Master and Grandmaster are FIDE or International titles. Anyone can have a FIDE rating by playing in an international tournament, the lowest level is Fide Master, which, by the standards of that group means you probably don't belong in those tournaments.

You achieve IM and GM titles by achieving playing norms in very strong tournaments that meet various standards by having a given percentage of Fide Title players participating. I think you need the IM norm three times within five years to become an IM and the GM, after becoming an IM, three times in the same period to become a GM. Which is the highest level. From there the only distictions are becoming a national or world champion. Bobby Fischer was U. S. champion at fourteen and a GM at fifteen. I think a few others have since become GMs at about that same age.

The basic Elo rating system relies on a database of thousands of players for it's formulars, so it might be useless for SC purposes.

[ November 18, 2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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I like that BF does not acknowledge posters by any sort of ranking.

I find them annoying.

The term is immaterial, but the terms existing is indeed material.

I can't think of a forum I have been on that employs them, where the die hards don't make the noob mistake of thinking a small number of posts, or a low ranking is indicative of how long the person has actually been with the site.

Sept 2003 I decided I wanted ALL of my accounts where ever they be, to be just Les the Sarge 9-1 and no letter codes after them (I was adding a letter to signify what forum it belonged to to keep passwords straight in my notes here at home b the way).

In one move, I went from being Les the Sarge 9-1b (for here at Battlefront), to a newbie called Les the Sarge 9-1 with a new post count and new join date.

I guess I could look up how long ago the first account arrived. But I could care less basically.

I don't have as much time in as a good number of what we call "the old guard" but I seem to get lumped in with them often enough.

Now if we can get Battlefront to ditch telling anyone how many posts we have, we would have the ultimate. Because then, the only thing a person would see, is our posts to establish our merits.

But I don't expect that to happen any time soon.

Still, I am happy to be known as "just a member".

There is way to much strutting on other forums by those with fancy post count based labels for my needs.

I think that is the primary reason a lot of guys will post messages with damnably little if anything in the post.

Each post adds to their total, and establishes them a little bit further along the way.

To darned close to penis envy in my opinion.

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My impression was that Shaka was asking about won/lost ranking system and only mentioning the posts thing along the way.

Rankings of any sort are always misleading. The people who post often (I mean make real posts as opposed to nonsense) know who the guys are who say something and who guys are who only love to see their tags.

Interestingly, I can't think of anyone here with over a thousand posts who has done so just for the sake of numbers. Those who start out that way seem to lose interest quickly and wander off.

On the other hand, I don't really keep track of the post numbers. At this Forum I think Rambo and myself have roughly the same number. It happens to be a lot higher than the next group, but neither of us have ever made an issue of it. The next group probably has about half as many and I guess there are four people in it; but so far those six people all make read posts and none of them are going for numbers.

Anyway, those are all just estimates, I don't know for certain and I may be way off; if someone who posts here has me and Rambo beat by a thousand I take my hat off to him and just hope he's been posting thousands of real entries, as I believe Rambo and myself have been doing, rather than going for big numbers, which mean nothing at all in themselves. The only thing it does accomplish is it shows at a glance that you've been involved in the Forum and aren't just popping in without knowing the issues.

I guess it is a penis thing with some people, but then anything can be pointed in that direction -- oops! -- bit of a Freudian slip. :rolleyes:

[ November 18, 2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Jersey, I can't thank you enough for giving me a title, at last, a name of my own.. I dont' think you'll ever know how much it means to me. :rolleyes: Do I get a hat, or a 'special troll like power' now that i am a 'post troll' or can i make my own up? I have some really good ideas.. believe me. .keepers, like ... well why spoil the surprise.. if I told you. . everyone would know.

So far as eating Americans, I only ate a couple, and only the really good parts of them, after they were properly scrubbed, despite what Zippysweden might have told you, my mother was a stickler for hygeine. So do I really count as an american? I kinda hope not.. I have seen them play hockey, I wasn't overwelhmed, and my game isn't so great to start, I don't think I would be allowed on the ice if it gets any worse.

and now I am on post 22 ( or was it 23).. I'll make it to member yet.. hopefully LONG after SC2 is released, but if not, I'll do my trollish best to keep entertaining at least a few of the other lurkers. I know you're pain fellow lurkers, and don't let chuckleheads like Comrade Zipp, or Zippletsweden deter.. we should all post and post and post til our little hearts burst with fresh posted goodness.

This game rocks, and this forums is really good, I have learned bunches about the game on here.

Oh oh oh !@!... I just had a brain storm.. it was so good i almost fell outta my seat.. The oldsters.. the really annoying ones.. and you ALL know who you are.. not the ones silent majority like, the other ones.. I have a name for you..


since you lot do it so well..

JP, would that be considered Trollish behaviour?? I ( long time gone) used to be a forum member somewhere else.. but i have forgotten the exact meaning of a post troll. Could you refresh me? I think in this place I can fit the bill, but I would like the definition so I hit all the marks.

I am so clever some times it makes my elbows ache.

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Aching elbows -- whoa, not a good sign!

I didn't give you the Troll title, I was commenting on somebody else's remark. Of course you aren't a Troll; those characters slip in, make some hallucinatory remarks and vanish again.

What makes you think most Americans don't also hate most Americans?

Seven more to be a full fledged member! Excellent, I'll having a parade in your honor. I always arrange one for special occasions.

And the marchers begin assembling -- this is going to be a big day folks!*

*As you accumulate more posts the parades become larger.


[ November 19, 2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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How come he gets a parade at 22 posts and all I got when I hit 1000 posts was a stupid cookie? I feel cheated!

btw, you gonna sign up for Rambo's 2nd Annual Thanksgiving Turkey Shootout? You know your on my list of people to kill. Like I told Rambo, your time has come to parish at the hands of Comrade Trapp. ;)

Comrade Trapp

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My apologies Comrade, I could have sworn I threw you a couple. Damn Kunniworth made me throw around ten so I started getting confused! Anyway, I've rounded up some good old boys from Texas, what they lack in numbers and vitality they make up for in Good-Old-Boyishness! :D

I'd love to play in that tournament but I'm, uh, scheduled to, uh, oh yes, dust the basment, that's the truth, uh, we dust the basement every Thanksgiving, it takes about a month to do properly!! :eek:


[ November 19, 2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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It reminds me of Tuchman story from her book, the Proud Tower. 1890s, the Senator from Maine named Mahon is running things. A Senator from Alabama stands up, thumbs in his lapels, chest out, and says,

"Gentlemen, I've been thinking. I have been thinking ..."

Mahon taps the gavel and helps out:

"May we please have absolute silence while the Honorable Senator from Alabama tells us about his new experience."

On another occasion he received a telegram from William Howard Taft:

"Have just gone for a horse ride and am feeling fine!"

Mahon's response telegram:

"Excellent but how is the horse doing?"


[ November 19, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Well, things seem to be back to normal. Thanks to Errantboy.

JJ, you should have some brandy-chickensoup more often, brings out the best in you.

I've been reading back in this forum lately, pages 60-120 and the likes, I must say this place got quite a history.

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Many thanks, been following Curry's recommendation religiously, especially the brandy part, and the man knows what he's talking about!

Sounds like you're going through last winter's stuff. This place used to really be a riot -- I mean a real riot with squads of horse patrol guys wearing helmets and hitting people with nightsticks! ;)

If you find some really good stuff you ought to bumb it back up, it's probably more appropriate now than it was back then. smile.gif

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Immer, I did share my brain storm..

The oldsters.. the really annoying ones.. and you ALL know who you are.. not the ones silent majority like, the other ones.. I have a name for you..

I thought it was soo "clever you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel" .. Baldric, Black Adder

I'm assuming you didn't find it nearly so brilliant and eye gougingly wonderous as I did?

drat.. back to the drawing board.

Also Thank you very much for the parade, Jersey. * Sniffle* no one has ever thrown me a parade, even if you've done it for everyone else.. it will always be special to me.

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My pleasure and those cubscouts were playing pin the donkey on something -- maybe it was, uh, ah-hem! Anyway, at least someone appreciated that Brain Storm.

Now that I think of it, I'm probably the only one around here who hasn't had a parade yet. I can't very well organize one for myself!

Wait, what am I saying? Somebody's finally thrown a JerseyJohn Day Parade! Fantastic! Thanks to whoever's responsible!


[ November 19, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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well damn, let me rummage around and see if I can't find a parade worthy of the "Great and Splendiferous Jersey John!!! "

It's kinda too bad, I saw the coolest parade a couple years ago, when Ottawa hosted the " Francophony games" They brought this troupe in from Europe and they did the parade, it was Mad Max meets Martha Stewart.. great spectacle.

But here's one thought:


( I Hope this works ..)

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Konstantin !!

We were sending out search parties and they all said you were reassigned to Siberia -- Very happy they were wrong!

Glad you like it, turns out they weren't parading for me after all. I went over and tried to shake one guy's hand and the bastard bit me, so I got the hell away from them.

Anyway, my friend Errant is putting a parade together for me. Except the first bunch became compacted into a little red square -- it's red because they're all crushed inside, poor devils, R. I. P..*

You've returned just in time for the rebirth of this berg. If you want to click on to my footer, or Comrade's, it will take you to a magical place where even Kuniworth is allowed to roam freely! :D

* Errant, in case you're new at it, that symbol just means the originating site isn't making the image available right now; sometimes that's temporary and sometimes it isn't, but you pasted it properly.

[ November 19, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Hell this must be the night.

I sense a spark of life going through the veins of this old desolated place. I even can smell some of the humor that once resided here.

Too bad KUNIWORTH !!! ( looks around...) isn't here to see all this.

Hey Comrade,

break? break you say? You just set this thing in 2nd gear.

[ November 19, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: kurt88 ]

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