Russian Front-Need Advice

[Lioneyes]

Well here we go again. The fascist hordes have once again poked a hole in my front and slammed four panzer groups into the gap causing me to once again pull back and try to reform my line.

I am spending all my MPPs on corps to plug the gaps, leaving nothing to build a counterattacking force. Like a counterattack would help as every time I attack him his air fleets kill me.

I must be doing something wrong.

I set up in a solid front with corps intermingled with armies. He always attacks my corps and he always gets it eliminated, usually with air attacks alone. Then he blows through the hole with his armor and begins rolling up the two flanks on either side of the breakthrough.

I cannot afford to exchange air fleets with him, and I cannot afford to build up a reserve.

Is there a better way to set up a defensive line? I'm wondering if I should leave gaps in the front line in order to have a back-up line to slow his breakthrough.

Any advice from the "Old Guard"?

[Comrade Trapp]

The Russian Front has never been my strong area, as my opponents will tell you, but I'll try to help you out the best I can.

The key is to force him to commit his forces to your strongest front. If your weak on the Eastern Front, do something to make him commit forces elsewhere.

Has the US entered the war yet?

How are you doing in the Med?

Is the RAF/USAAF capable of taking on the Luftwaffe?

Where in Russia is your frontline?

Has the Siberian Army transferred yet?

What tech advantages does he have?

What tech advantages do you have?

Do you have anything invested in tech research?

These are all questions that you have to take into consideration.

Also, is he making his breakthroughs in one particular area or at different spots along your front line?

Is this a single player game or multiplayer?

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by Comrade Trapp:

The Russian Front has never been my strong area, as my opponents will tell you, but I'll try to help you out the best I can.

The key is to force him to commit his forces to your strongest front. If your weak on the Eastern Front, do something to make him commit forces elsewhere.

Has the US entered the war yet?

Yes, but they are currently building up in England and only have small forces

How are you doing in the Med?

All quiet on the Med front. No sign of german activity.

Is the RAF/USAAF capable of taking on the Luftwaffe?

I have two RAF fighters and one Bomber, plus One US fighter. He has at least two air units in France that I can see.

Where in Russia is your frontline?

Has the Siberian Army transferred yet?

From south of Leningrad to just W of Moscow down to Rostov. Yes I have gotten the Siberians, but had to divert them to the south to counter a breakthrough at Kiev. He has now broken through at the Don R west of Stalingrad and is in position to cut my forces in two.

What tech advantages does he have?

What tech advantages do you have?

Do you have anything invested in tech research?

He has a 13 tank and air unit I can see. I have level 12 tanks, but only have one left :mad: , plus level 11 air. I invested in air, tanks, and anti-tanks with the initial MPPs, couldn't afford any more since.

These are all questions that you have to take into consideration.

Also, is he making his breakthroughs in one particular area or at different spots along your front line?

His first major breakthrough came at Kiev. He was able to sweep to the Kerch Peninsula and isolate a bunch of my guys defending from Odessa north. I have had to divert all reinforcements and MPPs to restoring the southern front.

Is this a single player game or multiplayer?

Hot seat with a buddy. Don't have internet at home.

Thanks for your help Comrade Trapp. I had thought about invading France with the British and US troops already in England, but it seems suicidal as I need a US HQ to accompany the American troops.

I keep thinking that my strategy of holding the line with a solid front could be my problem. It requires too many troops and seems to leave nothing to back-up the line in case of breakthrough.

[Kuniworth]

I've also lost many wars on the eastern fronts. THing is you've gotta delay axis before the invasions, so barbarossa wont be like trying to stop a steamroller with your bare hands. It also depends on wether you're playing with extra russian MMP which tactic you will use.

But I suggest you wait until siberian transfer if you are in trouble. Let cheap corps take the brunt and preserve armies and tanks. You can´t afford to exchange them in a ratio 1:1.

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

I've also lost many wars on the eastern fronts. THing is you've gotta delay axis before the invasions, so barbarossa wont be like trying to stop a steamroller with your bare hands. It also depends on wether you're playing with extra russian MMP which tactic you will use.

But I suggest you wait until siberian transfer if you are in trouble. Let cheap corps take the brunt and preserve armies and tanks. You can´t afford to exchange them in a ratio 1:1.

I am starting to realize that this campaign was lost many turns ago, as you point out. I had originally intended to use the Siberian troops to mount a counterattack west of Moscow, but his breakthrough forced me to abandon that plan.

It's been one turn of front patching after another, with no hope of saving MPPs.

I could have used some extra Russian MPPs!

[waltero]

It has been a long time since I have played the allies and made it to Russia

But if Russia is to enter the war It is all over for the Germans

What the germans hope to do is cut the Russians supply off. If they can surround every city or cut strait through Russia, cutting off any further operation of units :eek: It is goes good for them.

If you have to make a line make it behind rivers. (enemy is on the river hex)

The enemy is coming through It does not matter what you do.

It is better that you give way!

Just stop them from getting close to Key area's (you decide).

Russia has good river line defence. Just form line at river he will cut it to peaces and form new line further back at diff river.

Give way let them come build your air and army up and then smite them!!!

Move your units Back do not try to hold anything but the "line" (don't just evacuate cities).

Move your air around as to see everything the germans are up too.

Draw his units closer then choke him off.

The only way I can explain is that the Russians have to sit back and wait, it is usually a one time shot. You will wait build then unleash all you got (Make sure it is a lot).

Russia can hold the two flanks using rivers. Fall back and use more rivers. keep your flanks (if you can).

I use to Move the units that have been reduced (due to combat) back to form new lines, then when enemy gets closer reanforce weak unit.

Don't attack german units or line. defend and pull back. keep your air safe. Buy lots of HQ.

[SeaMonkey]

In Fall Weiss, there is nothing you can do on the East Front to stop a good determined Axis player, unless there was a humongous bid or you get lucky with IT and AT tech advances. You must open up the "Second Front" and you must do it before the Rostov-Moscow-Leningrad Line has been achieved. Since the Siberians are done, you have little chance....Pull back to Urals and Caucasus, screen with corps to keep USSR whole, hoping for a short delay while Axis builds supply, stretch him so partisans are active, he will have to garrison. And last but not least .....kamikaze the West.

Good Luck,

you are going to need it...

Strike that,

You need a miracle.

[jon_j_rambo]

Dude, the Russian front depends on alot of factors like C-Trapp mentioned. The strategy depends on "the whole board". But some basics can been said.

1) Try to stay entrenched.

2) Keep at least a "Thin Red Line" of units.

3) Double line even better.

4) Use terrian, rivers, woods, marsh.

Sounds like you're getting headcracked by some other dude. You playing Terif?

[Lioneyes]

Thanks guys for the reposnses. I am clearly getting my "head-cracked" and am in need of a "miracle" at this point to survive.

I think I should try and get some bonus MPPs at the start of the game as the Allies. From what I have read, this would be standard in the challenge matches you guys play.

What would be a fair and equitable allocation of MPPs to give the Allies a chance against a decent Axis player?

[Kuniworth]

depends on how good the axis player are. 3000-5000 MMP perhaps.

[kurt88]

Start with a 150 bid for 1-8 thus giving the UK 150 mpp's and the USSR 1200 mpp's extra from the start of the game. This pretty much a standard bid.

If the Axis player is really way better than you go with the Captain's suggestion.

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

depends on how good the axis player are. 3000-5000 MMP perhaps.

3,000-5,000?!?!?!? :eek:

No wonder I am getting my butt rap...head cracked!

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by kurt88:

Start with a 150 bid for 1-8 thus giving the UK 150 mpp's and the USSR 1200 mpp's extra from the start of the game. This pretty much a standard bid.

If the Axis player is really way better than you go with the Captain's suggestion.

This seems more conservative

I don't think he's THAT much better than me. I should probably play the Axis one time and then I could probably judge better. But I really prefer to play the Allies.

I'll try that 150-1200 on our rematch.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Sombra]

Well, if the axis player knows what he does, than a bid 1:5:20 ; 175-200 MP is adequate. I think this is even true for equal players.

Lioneyes, if you look at opponent finder forum you see that Terif even offered a 8000 MP advantage for Rusia. His own word were: To make the game more interessting

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by Sombra:

Well, if the axis player knows what he does, than a bid 1:5:20 ; 175-200 MP is adequate. I think this is even true for equal players.

Lioneyes, if you look at opponent finder forum you see that Terif even offered a 8000 MP advantage for Rusia. His own word were: To make the game more interessting

Thanks Sombra!

It would appear that given equal abilities, that the Axis has an overall advantage.

I will take the extra MPPs and see if my worthy opponent will find our next game "more interesting"!

[Terif]

Ah, ok....8000 mpps is not the standard bid for everyone I think...

The bid always should depend on the experience of both players and especially the axis one. In the meantime strategies and tactics are highly developed, but you need some time and a lot of games to learn them .

More common bids are:

-new vs new:

no bid necessary (Allies even can be in the advantage here - but when someone has at least read some strategy threads and knows how russian readiness works, a low bid would be appropriate)

-intermediate vs intermediate:

bid 200 system 1:8 or 1:10 (or ~100 in 1:5:20)

-veteran vs veteran:

bid 200 system 1:5:20

For some basic informations about how SC works + strategies (including the different bid systems) read e.g. (first post):

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002198

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by Terif:

-new vs new:

no bid necessary (Allies even can be in the advantage here - but when someone has at least read some strategy threads and knows how russian readiness works, a low bid would be appropriate)

Argh! So I DO suck! Thanks Terif.

Would it be better in Russia to NOT try and form a continuous line? Maybe better to try and have a two-layer defense with armies up front backed up with corps, even if it leaves some gaps in your front line?

I have been thinking about this and will give it a try in our rematch, unless you think it would be suicidal.

[Terif]

Your strategy in Russia should depend on your opponents strategy and always be coordinated with western Allies (you need a second front very soon after Barbarossa started)

But in general:

Use natural defence lines behind rivers and swamps, entrench in forests and cities. First defence line is Riga-Minsk-Kiev-Odessa (then Riga-Minsk- Kharkov-Sevastopol).

Cheap corps in the first defence line and some hexes back your armies + tanks (HQ supported !) to close enemy breakthroughs - cheap corps fill the gaps again. If you cant hold a defence line any more retreat to your next line. Avoid building defence lines in open terrain - there your units have no chance to survive and will be destroyed easily.

[jon_j_rambo]

Playing Terif is kind of an exception. YodaTerif is tough, won't make mistakes & will have the German forces in perfect formation. His "Shock & Awe" tactics will keep you thinking in Russia.

[Kuniworth]

I heard that Terif is just a myth.

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by Terif:

First defence line is Riga-Minsk-Kiev-Odessa (then Riga-Minsk- Kharkov-Sevastopol).

Cheap corps in the first defence line and some hexes back your armies + tanks (HQ supported !) to close enemy breakthroughs - cheap corps fill the gaps again. If you cant hold a defence line any more retreat to your next line. Avoid building defence lines in open terrain - there your units have no chance to survive and will be destroyed easily.

Thanks Terif!!

I think this game was lost when he broke through at Kiev. He used four tank units to roll to the southern coast, isolating my defensive line along the Bulgarian/Romanian border. I had to fall back to the Dnepr line and try to restore the line with the Siberian reinforcements.

I will try to put corps in the front with some gaps to channel his attack towards the terrain you mention. Then I will have my armies, tanks, and HQ's further back to prevent breakthroughs.

Does that make any sense?

Plus it is very hard to build up the US and British forces for an invasion of France in 1942, especially given the low rate of US MPPs. I try and build air first, then infantry and tanks. For HQs, my plan was to have one to remain in England to control the air and another to accompany the invasion forces.

HQs COST a ton, though, so the time to build is slow.

I usually do pretty well in Poland by pulling back around Warsaw and NOT attacking, and I can usually delay the fall of France for a reasonable time, but the Russian Front has been my achilles heel so far.

[jon_j_rambo]

Yoda, recruiting poster.

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Yoda, recruiting poster.

Understand, I do not. :confused:

[Comrade Trapp]

Originally posted by Lioneyes:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Yoda, recruiting poster.

Understand, I do not. :confused: </font>

[Lioneyes]

Originally posted by Comrade Trapp:

Terif is the Yoda of SC.

Well, I'll be. I have posted on other boards and usually the top players love to flame and criticize newbies.

You guys have a pretty unique Board here if the top players are willing to give advice to newbies without trying to humiliate them.

My compliments to Yoda-Terif and the SC Board.