Curry Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Need help from those who understand the Siberian Transfer better than myself. In a game where Russia recieved a bid of lots of extra MPP. The Russian built a large land force of corps and Tanks. Lots of Tanks. In the south there were tanks holding the River by the mines. So I just held there and attacked in the north to Leningrad and Moscow. I took both Leningrad and Moscow. Now the south is pulling back, but still no Siberian Transfer. Is it possible to lose Moscow and Leningrad and still not recieve the Siberian Transfer? I thought I read before that it is also dependant upon how many units the Russian had. Would the number of Tanks influence that too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 First there is a geographical trigger for the siberian army: if enough axis units approach Moskov (within 4 hexes) or one of the cities east of Moskov (Rostov, Stalingrad, Voronezh...etc), siberians can arrive. The closer the axis units are to the cities, the less units are necessary to trigger the siberians - and units near Moskov count more than near other cities. But after the geographical precondition is fullfilled, there is a check for the relative strength of both the axis and allied forces in Russia. If Allies are strong compared to Axis (and have a minimum number), then siberians dont arrive, even if Axis units are attacking/taking Moskov...Usually Allies have to be really strong, something around 50+ units. Probably Tanks count more than corps, since the relative strength is relevant if siberians transfer or not. So it is possible to loose Moskov (Leningrad doesnt influence siberians anyway) and still not to receive siberians if Russia is too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 Thanks Terif. I now know its possible. I took Moscow but dont have any units close to any of those other cities you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Terif, By stating "Allies" strength you are also refering to other US, UK, FF, minors that have operated into Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I dont know if US, UK, FF etc. units count too. According to Huberts remarks only russian units count. It simply happens too seldom that siberians are not triggered to be able to test it . Usually if Russia is too strong for the transfer, Axis never comes deep enough into Russia to be able to trigger siberians. Perhaps in ~2 out of >500 games this happened - so its not really relevant . And when it happened, Russia had always much more than 50 combat units. When it fell below ~50 units siberians arrived. Here one of Huberts comments concerning siberians: Originally posted by Hubert Cater: Siberian transfer depends on a lot of factors, relative strength of Russian units vs. German units, supply path situation etc., coupled with some of the better known geographic triggers. The idea behind Siberian transfer was to only have it triggered under the right situation, not too early and not at all if the circumstances warrant it etc. In general it should be as a result of the combat situation, this way (it was hoped) for the most part it can help to create an ebb and flow on the eastern front and simulate some of the tension. Either way I realize it may not be perfect and it will be something to consider tweaking for future games etc. ... Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wehrmacht Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Thanks a lot Terif. Curry was playing against me in that game. I didn't have +50 units, actually I just counted them; There was 25 units +2 HQ's. One German unit was in two hexes of Rostov and another unit was two hexes of Voronezh. And like said earlier, Moscow was already taken by the Germans. I guess that it's either a bug, or my very very bad luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Wermacht, It's been a long time since I've purposely triggered a Siberian, only against a real rookie playing the Axis with these Monster Bids. I really felt so confidant that nothing he could throw at 10 4 star German Armies and 2 3 Star German HQs would matter. Although I've had cases that any capture of a city bordering Moscow meant Trigger. One where I slipped a corps into Rostov unprotected and immediately it triggered. Rarely have I seen it trigger if you stay outside of taht parameter. I think it best to halt up, build your Wermacht up in preparation for the Transfer so when it does happen even though you're a city or two short Kill him. The vitals are the first 4 FrontLine Cities, then Sevastopol<use this to do Amphibious Landings into Caucasus>, the first 3 mines and definitely Leningrad after they're polished off. Keep Finland Free if you can. Then by the time he gets a transfer you'll have 3 layer thick Wermacht, wait a year or two, with 8 fighters behind it and plenty of Tech to smash him to utter bits. Unless of course you're way ahead. Just make certian 'you're ahead' when you do let the transfer occur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Since siberians didnt trigger with 25+2 russian units, it seems there is no static number where it triggers or not - this confirms what Hubert said. It seems to be really only the relative strength russian vs germans relevant. In my games when it triggered with around 50 units, Germany was very strong too. Since you have only 27 russian units, then Germany is probably also very weak - and your tanks count probably more than corps... BTW: like Liam said: the Axis player decides when siberians trigger, so he usually only trigger them when he is ready to do so. Another reason why it normally doesnt happen that Russia is too strong to receive siberians . But to be ready means axis main forces arrived at the front = after 2-3 turns preparing. To wait a year or two and to build up is only possible if Axis has already won the game...but when Allies are still fighting Axis has not the time to do so or they will loose the fight at another front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 The Siberian Transfer is another mystery of guesses. Who wants to HotSeat that? Would take forever. Hell (Heaven), I bet Hubert doesn't even know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I would like to see an option where upon the entry of the US into the War the Allied player can influence the timing of the Siberian transfer by selecting the American Strategy for fighting WWII: Example: US Selects one of 3 American strategies upon entering the War: 1. Europe First - No change to Siberian Transfer. 2. Peace with Japan - No Siberian Transfer :mad: , US Production Doubles -- With the US abandoning the Pacific to the Japanese the Russian forces must remain in Siberia to deter any Japanese invasion of Eastern Russia. Meanwhile the strength of US forces aimed for Europe grow rapidly. 3. Japan First - US Production reduced by 50% for 1 year, Early Siberian Transfer . ---Russian commanders feel confident in summoning their forces from Siberia as Japanese forces struggle to hold back the American onslaught. The strength of US forces available for aiding its European Allies is limited as the Americans focus on defeating Japan before turning their attention to Europe. [ March 31, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Hi Edwin, I can't imagine that Peace with Japan could be a politically viable option for the USA after Pearl Harbor... the basic idea of different strategies for the USA re the pacific is interesting tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 I agree, let me call it the - US Ignores the Pacific until Germany is Defeated Option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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