Strategic Command: Pacific

[mctube]

Probably been posted already but is there any chance of seeing Strategic Command in the Pacific?

[J P Wagner]

No word yet....but this "Pacific" question was raised about Combat Mission over at the General Forum...there were a couple of intersting responses...perhaps all tongue in cheek regarding BF's European Theater bias?

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=006328

[ March 09, 2003, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: J P Wagner ]

[Les the Sarge 9-1b]

I wandered back 8 pages then realised, the "Pacific Question" was well addressed, but then it was usually discussed on threads that involved the Pacific by default.

It was discussed at length but hid in threads such as those discussing a possibility of SC going to a global setting.

The trouble with SC in the Pacific, is seemingly tied to how to invade land masses that are so intrinsically minor in area.

That, and the naval aspects of SC are not quite ready for a game that is almost all naval.

As such, SC shares the same trouble most games that begin in Europe suffer, Europe was a land war, and the Pacific was a naval war.

Games that begin in one, usually devote specific attention to gaming the setting, to the exclusion of simulating the activities that would dominate the other.

This is why, a Combat Mission Pacific is no easy task. Yes it exists out there in the forms of independent mods, but they are independent mods, not official releases.

I expect you will see a home made Pacific SC before you see one made by Hubert.

[Edwin P.]

It seems to me that two of the main features in any SC: Pacific should be a pertual Fog of War and fleets (aka unit staking):

1>Fog of War> Air Units and Carriers would have a % chance to see into adjacent hexes. Other Combat ships (battleships, cruisers, subs) would only see enemy ships if they bumped into them. Thus you could have 2 fleets that pass by each other unseen. Players would never know exactly where the enemy was planning to strike. More free-form than SC where the AXIS and ALLIES are battling on fixed front lines. In the Pacific there are no front lines per se. Futhermore, although you may spot an enemy fleet the enemy fleet may not be able to see you and might not even know that it was detected.

2>Fleets>Players should have the ability to stack units. Creating mixed fleets of Carriers, Battleships, Cruisers and Subs. The more Carriers in a Fleet the greater % to reveal enemy units in surrounding hexes and know if an enemy fleet has seen your fleet.

[J P Wagner]

To get an idea of how a Pacific Theater SC game might work, you just need to check out Uncommon Valor from Matrix...though it covers one area of the Pacific theater, it still represents what type of system and scale would/could be used....

[JerseyJohn]

The main obstacle was map scale.

The present area covered for Europe would be too small to cover a region stretching east-west from the Hawaiian Islands to India or further (Japanese carriers went as far as Madagascar early in the war). North-south is also huge, reaching potentially from Siberia to Tasmania

[Shaka of Carthage]

And lets not forget China. You need to represent (even if abstracted) the land combat occuring in China (which tied down a large number of Japanese units). And the Soviet "Siberians" and the Japanese facing them.

[J P Wagner]

I know this topic is like deja vu as I respond in a similar fashion as in the past...but, we are all accustomed to large size unit sprites...if the unit size was smaller (as in UV) then it's possible to cover the scale and still have a decent land campaign. It is more difficult, scale wise, if the SC unit size is maintained... and remember, by unit size, I'm not reffering to Army-Division ect. but the physical size of the unit, as it is represented on the map....

[jon_j_rambo]

If they're going to make SC-Pacific it's going to need to start from square #1. All new everything, naval, air, spotting rules, etc.

If you want a fun board game, buy Axis & Allies-Pacific. Buy some beer too.

Legend

[Liam]

Please no!

I mean I'm not going to be a party pooper. The Pacific on it's own is halfway interesting theatre. Though Island hopping like steppe hopping puts most of us to sleep...

Just ask the people that play A&A none of them Island hop with the US unless they're really unconventional. It's slow, it's pointless as you gain too little and really it becomes a war for bigger Fish. Though include both Powers and I'm going to eat sugarcoated Shrimp for breakfeast

[Luke]

By the way how about opening source of the game? Personally I would like to try to reprogram some things. Is it possible?

[Panzer39]

I think the time scale would also have to be changed for a Pacific SC. Bi-Monthly turns just don't seem to be realistic. If all Midway would be is My Carrier icon bumped into your Carrier icon scoring 5 damage points, jump one month ahead, Your carrier icon sunk my carrier icon jump two weeks ahead etc. Count me out.

[Edwin P.]

As indicated above you would have to change the tactics in the game to allow for amphibious invasions, reflect the superiority of land based air units over carrier based units, and make it important to seize islands on the road to Japan.

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1> Perhaps saying that Carriers have to return to port every X turns for resupply and repair. Reduce their combat strength by 1 point for every turn above X that it has been at sea.

That means that you can't keep a carrier at sea for 18 months straight and expect it to be in peak fighting shape.

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2> As for the Amphibious invasions, you would have to allow for 3 aspects;

1. Speed of Invasion - If you delay the actual invasion to allow for bombardment you give the Japs time to sneak in reinforcements.

2. Fortifications - The extent of which were largely unkown until the US acutally invaded.

3. Invasions by several marine units over several hexsides at the same time. Thus giving the Japs a defense bonus when invaded only from 1 hexside and a defense penalty when invaded from 3 or more hexsides.

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In my opinion, one of the most exciting aspects about the Pacific War is the Fog of War and its effect on the major battles. You don't know where the enemy fleets are, you only know what their objectives could be. If you guess wrong, you lose.

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You will also have to allow stacking in ports and allow any attack on a port to damage all ships in port (aka Pearl Harbor).

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I would consider allowing the Japs to pick a defensive strategy for each island they hold - ie Defend the Beaches, Defend the Interior and allowing the invading Americans to pick an attack strategy at the time of invasion without knowing what the Japanese Defensive strategy is.

a> If the Japs "Defended the Interior" then Naval bombardments should have minimal effect, but the Marines would be able to attack with full strength.

b> If the Japs "Defended the Beaches" then Naval Bombarments would have full effect but the Marines would attack at 1/2 strength.

[Edwin P.]

The game would also have to allow for stacking Air and Land Units in the same hex. Ie You seize an Island and station an Air and a Land Unit there.

Islands with an Air unit would should also allow for improved recon. Say all hexes within a radius of 2to3 hexes all the time and an air patrol in one or two directions for a distance of the air units range. So if you held an island, you would also be able to select direction(s) of patrol for that islands air recon units.

Thus you have a strategic choice, do I patrol North, South, East, or West. This is most realistic as you can't watch all the ocean all the time and clouds obscured vision.

[Edwin P.]

As Liam says;

I mean I'm not going to be a party pooper. The Pacific on it's own is halfway interesting theatre. Though Island hopping like steppe hopping puts most of us to sleep...

Just ask the people that play A&A none of them Island hop with the US unless they're really unconventional. It's slow, it's pointless as you gain too little

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Idea 1:

Seizing islands would be more important if the hexes between controlled islands rolled back the Fog of War.

If an enemy fleet moved through a line of hexes linking the two closest islands you would have a % chance to see that unit for 1 turn. The % would depend on the distance seperating the two islands.

Example: If 10 hexes seperated the islands then there would be a 10% to see any fleet crossing between the islands. If 5 hexes seperated the islands there would be a 20% of seeing any fleet that moved between the islands. This would be doubled if an air unit exists on both islands.

The more islands you have the better chance you have of locating the enemy fleet. To reduce the enemies chance of locating your fleet you have to seize their islands.

Idea 2:

Only Marine Units can make an amphibious invasion against an occupied hex.

Marine units can only make 1 attack, if this fails then they must be resupplied before making another attack. (ie after a failed attack their strength is reduced to 1)

They can only be resupplied at the nearest island supply depo or city or land hex in range of a HQ unit.

Seizing islands allow them to be resupplied closer to the front lines.