AAR Air/Grnd Limit: Shaka (Axis) vs Oak (Allies)

[Oak]

By way of comment ... I was amazed that the Axis declaration of war on Vichy France caused USSR readiness to go up by only 3%.

[Shaka of Carthage]

April 13, 1941 ... US 45%, Russia 60%

"No name" UK BBBG bombards Bergen, Norway.

UK strategic bomber continues the bombing of the port of Brest, Greater Germany. The port takes heavy damage. Luft I engages the British fighter escort but does no damage to the bombers.

Ruling councils have been established in Marseilles and Algiers to advise Italy on administering those areas until a provisional government and elections can take place. Last of the French ships have been scuttled in Mers El Kelir port in Algiers.

Vitturio Venetor BBBG and Fiume CABG engage in battle with another "no name" BBBG in the Gibralter port.

Italian sub packs, after being refitted with new submarines, resume the sinking of British merchantmen in the Med. Llyods of London doubles the insurance rates of ships traveling in the Med due to the losses.

Diplomatic relations have become very chilled between Germany and Spain. Spain isn't happy about the post-war disposition of former French assets. Especially displeased by the recent Italian "administration" of the former Vichy France. The Fuhrer became especially enraged when Franco mentioned that Germany couldn't stop the destruction in Brest. At that point, both leaders felt it was best to resume talks at a later date.

[Oak]

Vichy France falls; Bulgaria joins the Axis.

Italians attack UK battleship in Gibralter, with equal damage to both sides (UK ships loses 4; each Italian ship loses 2). Continued bombardment of Bergen. No air activity over France.

[Shaka of Carthage]

May 11, 1941 ... US 49%, Russia 60%

U-47 sub pack strikes at No Name BBBG near Bergen. While it inflicted moderate (4 str) losses, it received heavy (5 str) losses.

Vittorio Venetio BBBG and Aero I bombard the Gibralter garrison.

Italian submarines have intensifed the sinking of British merchant ships (19 MPPs). This forces Llyods of London to double the insurance rates, something that was done less than a month ago.

The Fuhrer is please to announce that Bulgaria has signed a mutual military defense agreement with Germany.

[ August 04, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ]

[Oak]

May 25, 1941

Axis attacks BB next to Bergen with sub and moves a German airfleet next to Bergen. Allies back off Bergen and attack Brest & port with bomber, 2 air fleets, 3 carriers and 1 BB. Allied navy performs dismally, taking Brest corp down to only 6. Allied air takes Brest port to 0.

Italians attack Gibralter with navy and air, and start to bombard Malta. Italians are clearly investing heavily in subs. Reports indicate that all but 2 of Italy's land forces are in transports.

Axis have a lot of luck in this stage of the game. They are getting tech increases, Allies have none so far. They also got very lucky with a very low increase of USSR readiness after the DOW on Vichy France, undoing the advantage from the delay in Poland's surrender. I have been saying that good strategy and tactics can make up for the 'luck factor' in SC. Guess I have a chance to prove my point.

[Shaka of Carthage]

June 8, 1941 ... US 60%, Russia 65%

Three (3) CVBGs, one (1) BBBG, two (2) Air and one (1) Strategic bomber launch bombing runs on Brest. Citizens continue to leave the city.

In a surprise move, Italian 1st Army and 5th Army conduct an amphib pre-dawn landing off the coast of Athens. Continuing into the city, they have seized control of the government buildings and infrastructure. Albanian Corps probes the Macedonian Army to tie it down. Reluctantly, the Fuhrer asks that Bulgarian military tie down the Epirus Army. The Fuhrer requests a urgent meeting with Il Duce, over the Greek "situation".

Bombardment of Gibralter continues.

Italian submarine packs sink British merchantmen in the Med.

German intelligence reports that the British war production has stockpiled large amounts of steel (over 700 MPPs). Based on the TERIF doctrine, speculation is that the British plan to launch another CVBG. Admiral Rambo, of the OKM, furious that his RACK plan has been rejected, has announced his resignation from OKM and plans to immigrate to the United States.

[ August 04, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ]

[Oak]

June 15

USSR readiness will start to go up on its own. The Ally (since the 'Allies' consist of only 1) looks forward to getting some help against the Axis powers.

Axis DOW Greece. Athens corp killed with assistance from 2 German air in southern Italy, but Greece will not fall until next turn at the earliest.

All but one Axis air fleet is located. 2 in southern Italy, 1 (Italy's) in Algiers and 1 in Bordeaux.

UK continues all out assault on Brest. The corp there is knocked down to 4 and the port is knocked back down to 0. No casualties sustained by the UK in the attack despite interception by German air with level 1 jet (due to highly experienced carrier escorts). Free French transport moves next to Brest.

Either Italy still has lots of transports in the water or it is investing heavily in subs (or both).

[disorder]

go boys, go!! jefferson, where is that box of medals?!

[Shaka of Carthage]

June 22, 1941 ... US 64%, Russia 66%

Massive naval and air bombardment again on Brest. British mercenaries, calling themselves the 3rd Army "Free French" have been seen off the coast. Brest braces for an invasion.

Eastern Med, Gloucester CABG (UK) and U-006 sub pack (Itl) engage in cat and mouse games. Both suffer moderate losses (3str each).

Germany and Italy have reached an agreement whereby Germany will adminster Greece. It may take awhile for news to reach the Greeks fighting in the mountains.

[Oak]

June 29

In the south ... the Axis move a German corp into Athens, but Greece does not surrender. One of the Italian subs attacks a UK cruiser in the western Med, and the cruiser backs off. Italian troops start moving east from Tobruk towards Alexandria. Continued assualts on Gibralter with the Italian air taking more damage than it is inflicting.

In the north ... Brest corp is attacked by 1 bomber, 2 air, 2 BBs, 1 cruiser and 3 carriers. Air and carrier attacks intercepted by 3 German air in France. Unfortunately, the UK fleet again performs poorly so the Free French army lands next to Brest and finishes off the German corp in Brest.

[Shaka of Carthage]

July 6, 1941 ... US 68%, Russia 72%

Again, massive assaults from naval and sea forces off of Brest inflict damage. British mercenaries, calling themselves the 3rd Army Free French land on the coastline and shatter VII Corps (Ge) in Brest. They stop to loot the corpses of the defender, allowing civilians to flee from the port. Luft Air units, seeking retaliation, succeed in sinking a CABG, believed to be the Hood. Royal Air Force bases in England where struck as well. XIV Panzers (Ge) counterattacked the 3rd Army (Fr), causing moderate damages (3str).

II Corps and XXX Corps launch from Bergen a reconnaisance into Scapa Flow. The No Name BBBG is engaged in combat with Scharnhorst CABG and U-47 sub pack.

Eastern Med, British naval forces retreat, while Italian submarines resume sinking the merchentmen that tried to sneak past while the ASW battle was going on.

While an agreement has been worked out for Germany to adminster Greece as a territory instead of the Italians, subversive elements within Yugo, have overthrown the Yugo government. Peaceloving Yugo citizens are pleading with the Axis to restore order. The last of the Greek rebels in the mountains have turned in thier arms.

[Oak]

Things are certainly heating up. All 4 German air are in France and aggressively attack Allied forces, with interceptions by UK air and carriers. Two attack and sink the UK cruiser, one attacks a carrier and on attacks an air fleet (that had previously intercepted). That must have been a costly attack for the Axis!

The Free French army is attacked by a German tank (knocked from 7 to 5) and then moves into Brest. The experienced carrier and air survive, although damaged, again despite the tech advantage of the Germans.

The Allies were very tempted to counter attack and eliminate one or two weakened German air fleets, but another interesting situation forces them to move forces northward.

At the northern tip of England, a German cruiser, sub and 2 corps transports appear. The sub is knocked down to 8 in strength when it bumps into the UK BB in Scapa Flow port, and is then knocked down to 4 by that same BB. Another UK BB attacks the cruiser, knocking the cruiser down to 4 and the BB from 6 to 5. What a difference good supply makes! It will be interesting to see if the German corps unload in Scotland or scurry off.

In the Med, light attacks on Gibralter (no air attacks). An Italian army appears off Alexandria port. A British corp occupies its landing zone and a British cruiser attacks it (knocking it from 8 to 5 in strength).

The Allies are starting to come to the realization that the Axis strategy is one of focusing on a naval build-up, and that the Report indicates a growing Axis naval force rather than transports perpetually being in the water. This should be interesting!

[Shaka of Carthage]

July 20, 1941 ... US 72%, Russia 76%

Romanian, Italian, Bulgarian and German units all enter Yugo to restore order.

Italian Caio Duilio BBBG and U-006 sub pack sink Gloucester CABG east of Alexandria. Italian ground units arrive over the horizon off the coast of Egypt.

XIV Panzers, supported by the Luft, elim the last of the French rebels in Brest and capture the port.

II Corps (Ge) lands in Scotland, attacking Scapa Flow by land. Gneisinau CABG and Aero I (Itl) sink No Name BBBG. Schanhorst and U-47 sub pack attempt to sink the other No Name BBBG in port. While damaging the BBBG (down to 1 str), they in turn receive heavy losses with U-47 sub pack getting entangled in the submarine nets.

XXX Corps (Ge) captures Firth of Forth port. VI Corp (Ge) captures Edinburgh, overrunning some Strategic Bomber bases in the process (lost 4 str).

Axis sub packs sink British merchantmen in the North Atlantic (13 MPPs). Italian sub packs sink British merchantmen in the Med (20 MPPs). Llyods of London is in turmoil.

[Oak]

In the south ... Italian transports swarm around Alexandria and Syria, and the UK cruiser is killed.

In the north ... Germany invades England. I made a HUGE blunder by not building a corp in Edinburgh, since no transports were in range and I thought the invasion a bluff. However, a German corp took the port allowing another one offshore to move into the port and unload into Edinburgh. Major mistake on my part of which Shaka took full advantage.

The UK responded by using its MPP treasury to build lots of corps.

One UK battleship was sunk and another reduced to strength of one, but Germany took heavy hits on its cruisers and lost a sub.

With the invasion of England, USA and USSR will be joining soon.

[Shaka of Carthage]

August 3, 1941 ... US 76%, Russia 80%

XIV Panzers liberate Brest.

4th Army (Ge), XII Corps (Ge) and Bock HQ arrive in England. VI Corps (Ge) overruns more Strategic Bomber bases.

Scharnhorst CABG finds crippled No Name BBBG north of Irish coast and sinks it. Gneisenau CABG finds healty No Name BBBG off of Northern Ireland, damage for both sides.

The last of the Yugo resistance has been tracked down and calm has been restored.

Bombardment of Gibralter and Malta continue.

II Corps (Itl) captures Suez Canal, then attacks XIII Corps (Br), defending eastern Alexandria. 5th Army (Itl) assaults 1st Army (Can) in Alexandria from the west.

Italian sub sink British merchants in Med.

[Oak]

Message from Oak to Shaka of Carthage:

The game is yours. My mistake cost me England. I will concede.

[Oak]

While the Allies still very much have a fighting chance, I'm upset with the their turn of fortune and the mistake that allow that change to take place. I want to learn from the mistake and quickly put the game behind me. Hence, my resignation from the game.

Oak

[Kuniworth]

Yes youre right oak, fortune and luck got a lot to do with things and can decide a game. In my games right now Im losing against Sand Castle(ranked 11) while Im winning against Iron Ranger(ranked #7). All due to lucky tech rolls. If youre not a really good player luck is important.

Shaka; What happened to Captain No Luck Kuniworth??

[Shaka of Carthage]

Good game Oak. Been there, know the feeling. Its what the military call "getting inside the decision loop". Thats what happened as soon as I got Edinburgh.

General "Hard Luck" Kuniworth is with the Italian Army assaulting Egypt in an advisory role. I believe the Lybians have nicknamed him Moustafa (desert mouse).

As far as the tech goes, very early, during Low Countries and France, I took MPPs and invested in tech. I had two (2) in Jets and two (2) in Long Range. It was 1942, and I had only gotten one (1) advance in each. That is not a huge technological advantage. You need at least a two (2) tech level difference to enjoy tech superiority. I had two (2) chits invested in Italian Jets/Long Range, which is not an easy thing to do. No tech advance there. His air & carriers had great experience (esp that damn Strat Bomber, with 4 bars), which they gained against Ireland. I normally don't do that (reinforce Ireland), but the opportunity to keep them away from France was worth it then. But I paid for it later on.

Since the reason for this AAR was to show some of the differences in a "limit" game, let me point out some of them. By reading the AAR, I think you can see you have to be selective about where to use your Air. Oaks aggressive use of the carriers forced me to keep them on the West Front longer than I liked, slowing down my neutral conquests. I laid so many traps for the carriers, but he wouldn't bite on any of them. See what you've started Terif?

We where finally in a part of the game where the limit effect shows. I had thrown five (5) units into England. That gave me five units less for Russia or garrisons. I stripped Norway and Sweden of garrisons (3 units), Denmark (1 unit) and Eastern Front (1 unit). That left me with about fifteen (15) units in the East. I had carefully used them, so 90% of those 15 units had two (2) bars of experience. But Oaks TERIF doctrine and me buying subs to ambush the carriers had left me with no HQ's in the East. Especially since I had sent Bock to England, and the other HQ was supporting my Air. I was about to buy two (2) HQ's for my coming battle with Russia, but I had been trying to buy one (1) for the last three turns. I had decided to limit my units in England to five (5), so I was in the process of swapping two (2) Armies from the East with two (2) Corps in England. It was a hard decision, since those where experienced Armies, but I needed to put down England before too many US units showed up. But I also needed experienced units to blow thru the Russians, before the numbers overwhealmed me. Decisions, decisions.

Italian air was critical, because it provided me with more options. But its expensive for Italy to buy. With four (4) Italian ground units committed to Egypt, the rest in garrison, Italy was no help to Germany on the ground. Only help came from the Air. And it needs an HQ to be effective.

The "feel" is just about right, though it would be better for the UK to have more Strategic Bombers. Until its fixed, I think the carriers should be replaced with battleships and UK is given maybe one or two more Strategic Bombers.

The coming US entry had me nervous, because it gives the UK the one thing I can't afford for it to get... more units. With enough, he can now "raid" the coast to find weak points, then amphib assault (if he had more strategic bombers, then he wouldn't have to "raid", he could just "see"). The more I could beat them down, the less it would have diverted the resources from Russia. But unless you pick off the UK navy, there is no hope of doing that.

Anyway, those would be the "differences" because its a "limit" game. Really makes a big difference in how you fight Russia, but that will have to wait for another time. The AAR thing was fun, but too much work. But it kinda gave me goose pimples to read about the turn, before I actually saw the replay.

[Konstantin V. Kotelnikov]

Gentlemen,

Very nice AAR, I enjoyed reading it. Too bad you didn't get to slog it out on the steppes of russia. It would have made good reading.

But then of course, I am biased.

[JerseyJohn]

Same sentiment as Konstantin and it's our loss you guys didn't get to the USSR, it promised to be very exciting.

Oak -- I've got the same philiosphy when I feel a game is lost. In chess it's considered good form to resign when it's an obvious loss, even with a board full of pieces. In this thing most guys seem to prefer duking it out. I guess that's the way to gain experience but, like you, I don't enjoy lost causes.

Anyway, a fine game from both of you.

Congratulations Shaka and I enjoyed the way you kept a running tally of those percentages, it really helped in following the action.

[Oak]

The Allies were in a great position, and even with the mistake in England probably could have won. I was just so upset at the turn of events that I could not continue. If I had built a corp in Edinburgh then:

- the UK air and bomber would have wiped out the Germany fleet

- the German subs would not have been able to do much because the UK had reached level 1 in long-range, allowing the carriers to stay under the protection of the bomber

- the German corps landing in the north would have been dispensed with because the UK corps would have HQ support, supply and air support. The UK corps would have then been able to invade Norway

- the German invasion in the north would have brought the USA/USSR into the war quickly, with Germany unprepared for a decent attack and the USA/USSR providing ships to replace those lost in the German suicide attacks

Shaka invested very heavily in naval forces, especially subs, which was a mistake given the UK strength in carriers. I only had 3 carriers. I toyed with the idea of building a 4th, but decided to put those resources into maintaining the attack on France instead. With 3 experienced carriers, an experienced bomber and long-range tech, the Axis subs would have been of little or no use against the UK.

I continue to disagree with Kuniworth. Luck had almost nothing to do with the outcome of this game. Right at the point when the Allies were in a great position to roll over the Axis, I made a stupid mistake that turned the Allied position around. I'll need to play Shaka again ... I know I can beat him

[Oak]

One comment on a point made by Shaka:

I was rather disappointed with the meager levels of experience gained by the Allied units attacking Dublin. After a few turns I was hoping that Shaka would stop reinforcing Dublin so I could take it.

The bomber gained its high levels of experience by attacking the Brent port and Antwerp; the carriers gained their experience from the attacks on Brest. All of them gained very little experience from those many turns of attacking Dublin. I think the most any one unit had was one bar. Pretty dismal given the many turns they attacked it.

[Curry]

Great read. I look forward to the rematch.

[Shaka of Carthage]

Oak

Thats a interesting comment about the experience. My understanding, is that an experience gain is per combat, not based on the amount of damage you do. Hence, the poor results per attack on Ireland should have gained you as much expierence as an attack on Brest or the Brest port.

Its no different than when Italy trains its Navy on Malta. The majority of those attacks do no damage, but you still gain the experience.