Jollyguy Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 I'll tell you, some of the posters on this thread are whiners. Just play the game and have fun with it! Someone says they've only played about five PBEMs games because they don't like surprise amphibious landings. Well, I don't like them either when I'm the Axis, even tried it as the Allies once in one of my first PBEM games, and was taken behind the woodshed by my opponent in a pointed e-mail response. I won't do it again, and consider it gamey. But if someone else wants to do it (mainly new to PBEM players), deal with it. It's a "What If" game! Let's take the Italy landings. First off, if Italy declares at the end of the Allied turn, which just happened in a game I'm playing as the Axis, scratch one valuable British Med corp. Plus, that corp came from somewhere, so maybe I'll just amble over to Malta or Gibralter or Cairo, and claim it for myself, or make him spend 40 MPPs operating an air unit down there. If he does land the corps, he gets a 5 port and 5 city, plus had to pay to get the unit there and eventually off, and could eventually lose it all together. It's his MPPs, let him do what he wants. Operate a couple German corps to Italy to contain the damage, and get on with taking out France. Deal with the "Brits on the Boot" later. And whose to say the Germans couldn't have landed by sea in Russia if they had foregone preparation for Sea Lion, and shifted their naval transporation assets accordingly, instead of losing all those barges off France to the Brits in 1940, not to mention not covering their Norway landings well, and losing all those destroyers to the Royal Navy. Heaven knows the Russians were asleep at the wheel anyway. They let a massive, and I mean MASSIVE German force build-up right underneath their eyes! ! And another poster whines about how the German player can buy multitudes of air units. He's like a broken record! (or CD, do CDs skip, I don't think so. I'm showing my age.) So, according to him it was probably okay for the Allies by 1944 to field swarms of American bombers until they darkened a daytime sky. German civilians reported that the drone of American bombers would go on for hours on end, followed by wave-after-wave of low flying fighters looking for targets of opportunity on their way back to England, followed by hours of British night bombing. That was okay, of course, because it was the Allied side delivering the ordnance. But heaven forbid that in this "What If" game that the Axis should be allowed such a "What If" outcome. Oh well, enough of my ranting. I'm glad I'm not playing these guys in PBEM, because I'd get tired of their whining and demands for house rules and overall sour attitude. I love the game, and when the play balance issues are addressed, it will be even more fun to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Originally posted by Jollyguy: I love the game, and when the play balance issues are addressed, it will be even more fun to play.Well, duh! All the "whining" is about getting play balance addressed, genius. It's called constructive criticism, and if people din't like, nay LOVE this game, they wouldn't be here "whining" about it. But thanks for letting us all know how "whiny" we all are, and have a nice day. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Amen Jolly, we have had a recent flood of whiney posts from some 'Junior members' I find my self having to dodge certain threads as where i used to be able to start at the top and work my way down the threads. For example: Glorius Victory for SixthArmy, I beat my dad, who had never played this game before in a hotseat, he got oWnEd. :mad: CvM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wagner Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Cd's can skip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Invictus Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Damn Jolly, get a new name because your current one is not very descriptive. I'm glad you and others think the game is perfect and in no need of further patching; I just don't include myself in your happy little group. As it currently stands, SC is a nice beer and pretzel game of WW2 grand strategy; it's just that I and others would like a bit more depth. If this can't be achieved in SC through patching or from a lack of desire on Hubert's part; then maybe we can see it in SC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 i am not saying that this game is anywhere near perfect, but these noobie whiners are pissing me off. Loyal member of 'the old breed' CvM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Invictus Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 I would understand Jolly's angst if anyone in the thread he is refering to said that the game was garbage or something similar but there was only some simple suggestions to make the game better in the poster's opinion's. I see no reason to get all worked up because not everyone feels the game is 100% perfect. Maybe Jolly is having a bad day. Who knows. I like the game and have told friends to pick it up but I will continue to hope for a more realistic simulation of WW2 grand strategy. I think SC or SC2 can be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 It's deja vu all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeres Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 I'm a moderate on this issue. I wish that new members and old members alike could make their points without resorting to personnal attacks. If you need to resort to personal attacks then you have already lost your agruement IMHO. I've only been on this board for three-weeks but that doesn't mean that some of us (new members) aren't old Strategy hounds with valid interest in the game! I'm a member of several other strategy boards and the atmosphere on this one is vicious in comparison. We all need to make an effort to make this board a more friendly place. Some moderation and civility please!!!! All right I'm in your cross-hairs......The shooting to pieces can commence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 When i say n00b or 'junior member' i am referring to the people who dont try to make the game better. Instead they just praise themselves and how "bad" this game is. Zeres, I respect you, your points make sense and have a strong base. I wish all of the other newer members could be like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Part of the whining truely IS whining, part is reasoned dialogue though (it's fairly obvious which is which at a glance). It took several years for A3R to become the benchmark game that it is. Trouble is, a large swath of computer wargamers have little or no experience with game design and realistic expectations (or at least seem to illustrate a lack of sound judgement). This is not always the fault of the gamer. Because so many younguns today missed out on the thrill of actually having to master the inner workings of a board game. Playing A3R is a damned sight harder than any computer wargame will ever be. Because not only is there no AI, but nothing happens at all till you fully learn the game. No quick play rules tutorials, nothing of a sort. What annoys me, is how a common comment is to slag a design, and then insist on the game being improved and handed to them as version 2. But no where does anyone seem ready to belly up to the bar and do it themselves. Why expect Hubert to do it? He did his part laying all the ground work. Why not one of our "sage" complainers? Well I guess that would mean time effort and of course cash, lots of cash. I think what I would looooove to see, is for some of the "fine suggestions", be phrased in a fashion less spoiled sounding. If I was Hubert, I know I would be less than inclined to listen to self proclaimed experts "explain" to me how I should have done this that and the other thing. Suggestions are one thing, but honestly, some threads are just plain insulting to Hubert's efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 As originally posted by Jollyguy: I'll tell you, some of the posters on this thread are whiners. Just play the game and have fun with it! Very odd to me when a self-annointed group decides what is relevant, and what is acceptable, and what is righteous and what is fair or foul. In America we have had and always will have -- some great and never! diminishing difficulty with these kinds of folks. Personally, I do not find this forum "vicious" in the least; to the contrary, it can, and has been quite stimulating. Toughen up the stoic soul, my friend. My experience tells me that those who moan about "whiners" are often trying to dominate or otherwise manipulate the conversation, making of it a charmless soliloquy. Heark to this fellows & femmes: if I were a game designer I would THRILL to hear all of these comments and suggestions... somewhere in there is that flash!! of alchemical fire!! which will make the next version of SC a veritable work of genius... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeres Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Personally, I do not find this forum "vicious" in the least; to the contrary, it can, and has been quite stimulating. Toughen up the stoic soul, my friend. ------------------------------------------------ Believe me my friend, I am all for spirited and lively debate. Bring it on!!! This thread for instance is lively and there is a variety of opinion. I love reading threads where a player has completely dismantled someone else's agruement. Let's just not resort to name calling in the process. It just slowly degrades the quality of a board IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixthArmy Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 For example: Glorius Victory for SixthArmy, I beat my dad, who had never played this game before in a hotseat, he got oWnEd. Someone told me turn based players are humorless cads. Its good to see these accusations are baseless. Carl, much as you dislike it, there are other ppl besides you who've bought this game and feel it is their right to come here and post. I see you bitching and moaning all the time about "new ppl" coming to your glorious forum. Frankly, I don't give a rip when you bought the game, or how long you've been here posting. If you don't like some ppl's threads you should just mind your own business and keep your pie hole shut just like everyone else does. Or ppl will start to think you're an arrogant dick. But I am a gracious person and will give you the benefit of the doubt. [ October 15, 2002, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: SixthArmy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sogard Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 There is nothing worse than whiners whining about others who whine. [ October 15, 2002, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: sogard ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1b: What annoys me, is how a common comment is to slag a design, and then insist on the game being improved and handed to them as version 2. But no where does anyone seem ready to belly up to the bar and do it themselves. Why expect Hubert to do it? He did his part laying all the ground work. Why not one of our "sage" complainers? Well I guess that would mean time effort and of course cash, lots of cash. Actually, if Hubert one day includes a config or ini file (a la Civilization) which includes a lot of tweakable game parameters, then people can play around with the various options until the panzers come home, with a minimum of effort. I think it is a great idea to allow a lot of user-made customization in a game-especially a wargame. In a board wargame you can fiddle with the rules and unit values to a huge extent (if you want to): that kind of flexibility is often missing in the computer versions tho. John DiFool [ October 15, 2002, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: John DiFool ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankWWIIOnline Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Hey, I'm grizzled. Now show me some respect, n00b's. I've been in a lot of forum's, and seen how the old turds there can become very fond of them as if they 'ruled the nest'. Get over it, new people come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 As originally posted by sogard: There is nothing worse than whiners whining about others who whine. O say sogard, sure there is -- those who disguise their whine in the sunshine sublime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 As originally posted by Hank...: I've been in a lot of forum's, and seen how the old turds there can become very fond of them as if they 'ruled the nest'. Get over it, new people come in. Gee Hank, wherever did this "rule the nest" jive come from? I know most of the old-timers, so called, and they are just like everybody else, yes? Someone made a good point however. Merely because you are new on the forum doesn't mean that you also do not have great & grand gaming experience, and a lot to offer in any discussion. Besides, it is not for each member to act as though they are providing object lessons for all the others. If the monitors object to something they will take care of it. If someone objects to a SPECIFIC part of a post, then let them stand up and say so, with supporting quotes, and not hide behind the skirts of generalities. As for CvM, hey, he was being a bit linguistic precocious, but meant well. I'd reckon that sometimes folks just take things a bit too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Getting back to Jolly's original remarks -- shouldn't something be said about the initial order of battle leaving HALF a country totally undefended? I can't imagine places like Palermo, Taronto and Genoa [or whatever their names are in this particular game] not being garrisoned even in peace time. Mussolini was dillusional, inept and guilty of numerous other misdemeanors, but one of his weaknesses was not placing too much trust in his fellow man! He covered his bases, even it was with poorly trained and ill led troops wearing cardboard boots bearing hopelessly inferrior arms! Anyway, I think comments regarding obvious mistakes are always in order -- the game is very good as it is but can be improved by correcting oversights. --- "They say it all evens up in the long run, but who the hell can run that long?" -- from an NFL veteran, unfortunately I forgot which one but Aristotle probably said it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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