HolzemFrumFloppen Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Greets, all: Am playing the demo and am still wondering exactly what the difference is between selecting Random or Neutral entry for the USSR. How does each work? Is there a chance (under either setting) that the USSR will not enter the war? I ask this since the Allies (which I'm currently playing as) would be hard-pressed to deal with the full scale of the war without them (no debate over this, please). I mean... what if the Axis-AI doesn't invade Russia. Will they then stay out of it? Any info on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 HFF, here's a snip from the FAQ on the website: THE MAJOR COMBATANTS The following political options will be available: · Random – Randomly enter the war within a historical context · Neutral – Remain neutral throughout the war · Historical – Enter the war at the historical time Note: For Russia, the Historical option is not available since they did not enter the war until Germany invaded in June of 1941. An important note on the random option with respect to the major countries is that it is greatly affected by the game play of either the Axis or Allied side. Aggressive game play by the Axis for example, may be rewarded with an early entry to the war by Italy, yet, overly rampant aggression may backfire since Russia and/or the U.S. could enter the war earlier than expected on the Allied side. While on the other hand, if playing as the Allies, aggressive declarations of war may also backfire with the U.S. delaying its entry into the war. The neutral and historical options will play as expected regardless of how the Axis or Allied sides choose to conduct the war. Neutral for Russia, would be interesting wouldn't it? Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck_para Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by HolzemFrumFloppen: Greets, all: Am playing the demo and am still wondering exactly what the difference is between selecting Random or Neutral entry for the USSR. How does each work? Is there a chance (under either setting) that the USSR will not enter the war? I ask this since the Allies (which I'm currently playing as) would be hard-pressed to deal with the full scale of the war without them (no debate over this, please). I mean... what if the Axis-AI doesn't invade Russia. Will they then stay out of it? Any info on this matter would be greatly appreciated.Random means that they can join at anytime. German activities may make them join faster while British activities may slow them down. The USSR will take a dim view of Germany invading the Baltic States and this may increase thier chances of joining. I have seen the USSR declare war in quite a few of my games, especially when I leave Poland under-defended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 In, reality, the most 'historical' option for the ussr is setting them to Random. The soviets did nearly declare war on Germany in June 1940,and April , May 1941. So in the game, if Germany goes on a tear through the balkans, the Soviets are more likly to declare war. This opens up a very realistic possiblity, of coarse, germany can declare war on them before hand if they like, but it wouldnt be wise since the war in the west was waging(no debate ona 2 front war please). Later today ill give you guys some exepts from the book im reading that tells a great deal about the possible soviet intervention. Til Nextime Baron CVM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Choosing the neutral option with respect to the USSR makes for a rather lame game. When they are set on neutral, you already know that they will never attack unless you attack them first. The name "random" is misleading for it sounds like, well: "random". But in fact, it is roughly based on the historical setting with some variance. I will never play anything else because I do not like the hindsight/precognition factor of the other settings. Straha [ July 08, 2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Straha ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolzemFrumFloppen Posted July 8, 2002 Author Share Posted July 8, 2002 Thanks a bunch to all of you for the helpful information. In light of the above, is it true, then, that the percentage chances displayed on SC's WarMap indicate the percentage chance for entry into the war that TURN? Or does a country (USSR/US) have to reach 100% before it enters the fray? Again, much obliged for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 They all must reach 100 b4 they declare war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by Straha: Choosing the neutral option with respect to the USSR makes for a rather lame game. ...<snip> StrahaOn second thought, you're right... Need the Ruskies... Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by Aloid: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Straha: Choosing the neutral option with respect to the USSR makes for a rather lame game. ...<snip> StrahaOn second thought, you're right... Need the Ruskies... Aloid</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uros Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Hello everyone ! I have a question about this random events . Does this mean that Yugoslavia will always join the Alies and Romania , Bulgaria and Hungary the Axis on both Random and Historical settings ? I hope this is not the case beacause as we all know some countries could join either side ( as seen in in High Command ) [ July 08, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Uros ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 In September 1940, the Whermact had 22 divisions in the east (poland and prussia). The Russians had 128 divisions, 22 tank brigades plus other smaller units. The Stavka had a detailed invasion plan ready, the only thing holding tham back was Stalin's desire to ally with Germany and wait for the right time to invade. The russians had estimated that the germans had about 130 divisions inthe east. As you can see, the russiand wouldve enjoyed huge sucsses in 1940 if anything by superior numbers had they invaded. Tentions heat up again in april and may of 1941 when the germans invaded the balkans. When the germans launched 'Barbarossa' on June 22 1941, the red army was in position to launch their OWN offensive. This did suprise the stavka, as they did not detect the german buildup in poland, even though britain warned them of the german preparation. As we all know thier is no 'historical' option for the USSR, the most historical of the 2 option givento you is definatly the 'Random' option. That way, you can begin to properly simulate the political relations between hitlers germany and stalins russia. In those faitful months between June 1940 and June 1941. Til i decide to rustle your feather s again, Baron CVM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camicie Nere Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Originally posted by Uros: Hello everyone ! I have a question about this random events . Does this mean that Yugoslavia will always join the Alies and Romania , Bulgaria and Hungary the Axis on both Random and Historical settings ? I hope this is not the case beacause as we all know some countries could join either side ( as seen in in High Command )It seems as if Belgrade always throws its lot in with the Allies in the game. (interestingly, the real-life "pro-Allied coup" in Yugoslavia came as a result of a pro-Axis government being installed.) Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary always seem to go Axis. Anyone ever see anything different happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: This did suprise the stavka, as they did not detect the german buildup in poland, even though britain warned them of the german preparationNot only the brits warned them. Stalin was too paranoid to believe his own spies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Cant wait to try my strategies for taking care of the socialists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: Cant wait to try my strategies for taking care of the socialists!Let me guess...You're going to transport the entire axis army to Finland and do a northern invasion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 no - he said deal to the "Socialists" - now everyone ELSE knows that the Socialists are hte National Socialists - ie the Nazi party. so he's going to transport them all to Western Finland, let the Sov's take Helsinki, and the entire Wheremacht et al will whither on the out-of-supply vine!! Very cunning if I may say so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Originally posted by Stalin's Organ: no - he said deal to the "Socialists" - now everyone ELSE knows that the Socialists are hte National Socialists - ie the Nazi party. so he's going to transport them all to Western Finland, let the Sov's take Helsinki, and the entire Wheremacht et al will whither on the out-of-supply vine!! Very cunning if I may say so! Yes yes, but you know the National Socialists weren't socialist at all, so I really think he's going for the Winter War (Expanded version) here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uros Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Originally posted by Camicie Nere: It seems as if Belgrade always throws its lot in with the Allies in the game. (interestingly, the real-life "pro-Allied coup" in Yugoslavia came as a result of a pro-Axis government being installed.) Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary always seem to go Axis. Anyone ever see anything different happen?Well Yugoslavia joining the Allies is plain wrong and historically incorrect . It looks like they declare war on Axis every time . In fact Yugoslavia just wanted to stay out of the war because of its own problems. ( Balkan problems are not from yesterday you know ) But the major powers just did not allow them too . So in fact Yugolsavia actually joined the Axis before the goverment was overthrown . The "best" part of it was , that the new goverment did nothing to "escape" from the Axis and join the Allies . The Germans were just too fast I guess. It seems that the politics are the weakest part of the game . What fun do you have if you know which country will eventually join you and which not ? I miss the randomness of High Command in this area [ July 09, 2002, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: Uros ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: This did suprise the stavka, as they did not detect the german buildup in poland, even though britain warned them of the german preparation[/qb]I remember watching a documentary where some ruski generals were intervjued, they had gone to Berlin and met with the jerry generals and asked: "We are getting reports of a large troop buildup near our Russian border. What are your troops doing there?" The Germans talked among themselves for awhile, then replied: "What troops? We have no troops along your border" A few days later almost 4 million Germans rolled into Russia. That was the coolest documentary of ww2 Ive ever seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Keeping Russia neutral would be the most realistic option. They simply were not prepared to launch an offensive strike against Germany. But of course, there's always "What if?" This came up on another forum and the following book was recommended: Stumbling Colossus Just reading the review is informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Keeping Russia neutral would be the most realistic option. They simply were not prepared to launch an offensive strike against Germany. But of course, there's always "What if?" This came up on another forum and the following book was recommended: Stumbling Colossus Just reading the review is informative.With all due respect, the soviets did have an invasion plan ready to put into action. The only thing holding them back was that they were trying to avoid a war of 2 aggresors and excecute a preventive war. Bill, you should pickup HITLER'S WAR: GERMANY'S KEY STRATEGIC DECISIONS 1940-1945, BY heinz magenheimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 the soviets did have an invasion plan ready to put into action Well, yes they did have plans and performed some exercises, but whether they were *really* ready to execute any of those plans successfully is questionable. The record indicates Russian forces were in poor condition in 1941, as demonstrated by their performance during Barbarossa. In SC, if Germany fails to adequately garrison Poland, then maybe Russia has a fighting chance to execute a successful attack plan. So it depends on the situation. (DOTS!) I think the AI considers the German garrison forces for random entry, but it's not clear. And I'll add Magenheimer's book to my already long list of stuff to get around to. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Hmmmm, there's some very good and very bad things in Magenheimer's book, read with a critical eye.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Such as?..... Im not thatfar into it, its only july 1941 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWinterbottom Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 That is the impression I also get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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