Dice Bug or Hack?

[Liam]

I was curious has anyone ever faced an Allied oponent during the invasion of France that just seems to roll nothing but Perfection? I've played one player that consistently in nearly 10 games seems to be near perfect. Do you think I'm just seeing this? <to be honest in 200 games of SC I've never seen anything like it unless there was a rated 12 HQ behind it>> Sincerely a deeply Curious SCer

[Dragonheart]

Can´t really answer your question due lack of details. The only thing i can say......

If you dont trust this guy why you play 10 games with him?

[Liam]

shocked in disbelief?

[zappsweden]

Liam. Was he lucky on BOTH Axis attacks and Allies attacks?

[Liam]

no just Allies

[Kuniworth]

Ive seen some combat results over the years. I will not go as far as cheating as I can't prove anything but it feel strange sometimes.

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

I once played the attack on Poland till I had the opening move down to a science.

Now granted, I took out Poland on the first move, but it wasn't free, my units still took damage.

And I ran that perfectly timed out notion a handful of times, and it didn't always resolve perfectly.

Thus, in ten games against a single individual, running the same basic situation, and they get 10 near perfection resolutions, I would be inclined to be more than a bit suspicious.

I have played games where I was nearly capable of being termed unlucky and incompetent in my defense of France.

I have also played guys that had to accept their game was already in the toilet thanks to my defense of France. And even after I lost France.

But no one is going to get 10 near perfection results in a row.

I would say time to move on to a new opponent, and just politely fade away whenever that person asks for a game.

Better to just be conveniently "unavailable".

It's safer, less damaging if you were actually mistaken, and if you are correct, says more than enough to the potential offender.

[zappsweden]

Contrary to Les, I believe that if you REALLY think someone is cheating and it bothers you why not play that person again and note your observations on paper or textfile and then post it on forum. Just make sure you do not accuse someone (idirectly or directly) if you have resaonable doubt.

Anyway, was that a PBEM game?

[Liam]

Interesting feedback. These were IP games with a Player, Avatar.. I asked another if they had suspicious dice, and they said yes, and frequently. I honestly must say this player has a knowledge of the game we do not or is using some in game hack that runs for France in 1940 only it seems.

I could be wrong, and this player could be the most lucky player I've ever seen with dice?

[Comrade Trapp]

Liam, is this the same guy that does some amazing things with the Axis subs in the North Atlantic, like making it past ships that are spread 2 spaces apart unnoticed?

[zappsweden]

Comrade Trapp.

Do not take it LIGHTLY to accuse someone of cheating openly. Instead of writing just 2 brief lines you could instead write some explanations with answers to questions (these questions for example).

1) "Where were the 2 subs?"

2) "What turn were they still unseen?"

3) "What areas did you cover and how many french ships did u sell on turn one?"

4) Did he raid the Atlantic?

5) Were both subs raiding?

6) Were the subs in a pack or spread out?

You see, this is like the Hombre Plin debate. Hombre said off forum (to Rambo) that he got a FOW sniffer from Terif, he posted on forum saying ME used some MPP cheat after he failed a sea-lion. He wrote some short comments and then left the forum. In my opinion, without a proper explanations (which Hombre did not give since he left the debate quite soon) it is the ACCUSER who makes a fool out of himself.

What I am trying to say is, the guy who accuses must be informative and provide details, not be brief. Guilt has to be proven, not innocence.

Another thing. How should the guy be able to explain/defend himself if you just give a vague statement?

[ May 06, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Terif]

Originally posted by zappsweden:

...

You see, this is like the Hombre Plin debate. He said he got a FOW sniffer from Terif, he said ME used some cheat and IMO without a proper explanations (which he did not give since he left the debate quite soon) ...

And you are asking me what I mean with hidden accusations...(ok, here it is simply a lie...)

Just to clarify things:

Hombre only accused Zappsweden - and nobody else than Zappsweden and never mentioned me in this context.

Hombres accusations against Zappsweden - and ONLY vs Zappsweden after Zapp brought it to the forum:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003033#000000

Hombres explaination what he really said - not what Zapp tried to make everyone thinking:

Originally posted by Hombre Plin:

Dear Mr Condor defender of truth:

I did´t create any havoc. I did´t run away, just i´m no longer interested in playing v/ humans since one of them cheated me.

If you were smart enought to read my first post on this theme you will find that was Mr. Z. caught like a schoolboy who posted about cheats and so on. I would have retired with no further commentary.

Newbie or not( and n2 in Z-league is not) cheating is cheating, here and in Alaska.

If the panzers are in the vicinity of Manchester and Us and Ussr are still out of the war, wouldn´t you sell ALL your chits? They are inutile if you lose Manchester remember. Mr. Z managed even to research air lvl-1 in his last english turn, and managed to have their carriers in safety. And the units kept pouring just to be destroyed by my air. I know what happened, you dont, so better stay out. And this reputed programmer kept on saying that cheating was impossible. Here you have then!!!.

Finally i have not even mentioned Terif. But the fact is that the program is German (Btw).

I hope you find better causes to support.

Full Story:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003090#000007

[Terif]

Back to the topic:

First, I dont think Zapp or Avatar cheated.

I played some games vs Avatar with him Allies. He plays very aggressive and likes to use amphibious landings to kill german units. Against me he even landed a UK-army to kill my german one.

Landing transports start with full supply and readiness of 100% when at full strength. I.e. Korps make up to 3 damage and armies up to 5 damage. French armies supported by HQ also can make up to 5 damage (with some experience even 6, but thats unlikely). Often people dont know how much damage well lead units can do and cant believe it - so they think their opponent would cheat.

At least in my games against Avatar I couldnt see extraordinary results. He killed a lot of my units, but that was simply because he used everything to crush me in France (and he always surrendered when I got Paris despite this ).

He obviously trained the french campaign and now has an excellent offensive defence of France that can easily kill a lot of players - as his record shows.

[ May 05, 2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[zappsweden]

Terif. Hombre Plin LEFT THE FORUM so we cannot ask him can we?

Anyway, he said to Rambo (ICQ or mail dunno) that he got a FOW siffer program from you (Kuni told me this on ICQ) and HOW THE HELL DOES THAT MAKE ME A LIAR?!

I presented facts about both me AND you being accused by Hombre, THAT'S ALL!

(If I say "Rambo told me the world is flat", it does NOT mean I believe it. Referring to someone is not agreing with the reference)

By the way, did not you just do the same stuff now i.e posting some "Z-Sweden is cheating" quote that Hombre Plinb wrote. What does that make you then? The word of truth? A liar?

Get Real!

You fukkin idiot.

You do not meisure yourself with the same standards as anyone else get that through your thick head.

[ May 06, 2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Liam:

no just Allies

Hey Liam, if it's an allied cheat-program hand it over. Things are looking bad in ryder cup for me

[zappsweden]

And another thing. "Funny" how I asked you a question (April 18, 2004) "What the hell (excuse the language) do you mean with "hidden accusations"? "

which i repeated several times in this topic http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003573;p=1

that you conviently missed (ignored) and NOW suddenly you remember you read the question which you acted you did not see and answer that question. You (=Terif) are a PHONEY!

[ May 06, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Terif]

Zapp:

You cant really think that if you say indirectly that I would cheat - or make it look like this - I would not react.

But I guess that was the purpose after your other provocations didnt work.

Therefore I posted what Hombre Plin really said, and he said clearly that he didnt mention me. You said he did, so it was a lie.

This part of the story came from you - not from Hombre and the reason is obvious since it was in the middle of our argument.

[ May 05, 2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[Liam]

Okay, first of all, this isn't between Terif and ZappSweden. It was my own Venture... SO far I'm not very impressed with my answers, I have never seen a FOW Sniffer or a Sub Jumper<but if such a thing did exist, I'd be very annoyed>

The real truth is this... British Armies after landing amphibious assualts killing my units left and right... were doing 3 damage with little or no experience without an HQ with no Amphib 100% effectiveness hit. French units would take 3-4 Combined Armor, Army Assualts with 4-5 Air all backed by Rommel/Bock/Runstedt<with all 2-3 bars on the fighters-HQs> and still not kill the French units.<the only thing the guy couldn't kill was my air> In fact take 3-4 damage and not even dent the French units. So what is your explanation for this? When the Cap limit on a French HQ is 4? Regularly French and British units in France would just be invulnerable to attack nearly and kill as if a rated 12 HQ was behind them. It's merely an observation... I have never seen anything like this. Felt anything like this and I'm not the only one to see it as a bit odd. Not Terif,Zapp or Rambo nor anyone else managed this... I have played almost every player on here and many of them had aggressive Frances but this one is the most Powerful I've ever dreamt of.

It's all about dice, and the player admitted that. Not saying they cheated as before I'm merely saying this person is a Vegas Man and admitted to that also or has a dicehack. You decide the rest...

This type of stuff happening once or twice was annoying, but again and again is odd. The fact is I have met others who've thought it odd is also strange.. I just wonder if there is something more going on. When Your Armor and Armies feel act like Corps you would feel a bit odd too?

I should've taken some screenies to show you guys but I don't think it's neccessary. Fact is in all the games as Allies vs this Player I beat them what does that tell you?

[Dragonheart]

Liam did you host this games or not?

[Liam]

I hosted them all DH.

[zappsweden]

Rambo. Show up here tonight and explain about theat message/mail Hombre sent you.

The only ppl (quite surely) I discussed the Hombre business with on ICQ was Kuniworth and Rambo. So, if anyone of those made this up, dunno. If Hombre made it up dunno. If anyone ever cheated in a SC game, dunno. What I DO know is I heard it from Kuni on ICQ and that Rambo started a topic about it months ago to ask Terif the same question. I mentioned both mr.T and MYSELF in this topic, not hiding anything.

("These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed" - A Few Good Men the Movie)

[ May 05, 2004, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[zappsweden]

Originally posted by Terif:

Zapp:

You cant really think that if you say indirectly that I would cheat - or make it look like this - I would not react.

But I guess that was the purpose after your other provocations didnt work.

Therefore I posted what Hombre Plin really said, and he said clearly that he didnt mention me. You said he did, so it was a lie.

This part of the story came from you - not from Hombre and the reason is obvious since it was in the middle of our argument.

Logic lesson:

Everything posted on forum is TRUE, everything else (words, letters, ICQ, TV, radio, media...) is FALSE.

You call me a liar you DAMN SMUG!

[Avatar]

Read what Terif writes. He speaks the truth. More importantly, I'm speaking the truth by saying I don't cheat, and never have. Can't stoop that low. No, no, I really just do play aggressively in France. I've played overly aggressive in the past, and lost my fair share, believe me. Rambo's diced me more times than i can know.

Anyways, my secret Liam? A new allied strategy. it worked, didn't it?

[Liam]

Well, Avatar I apologize for slandering your name.<it wasn't slander it's competitive concern> I ran a Beta hotseat and I did quite well against the Germans with your aggressive strategy. It's possible but you're just that much better than me I suppose, but I do forwarn anyone playing you that they better ask for a 0 bid. With your general luck and strategy your Allies are unbeatable... at least by me

<I've never seen dice like yours, ever ever >

[Curry]

QUOTE:

British Armies after landing amphibious assualts killing my units left and right... were doing 3 damage with little or no experience without an HQ with no Amphib 100% effectiveness hit. French units would take 3-4 Combined Armor

I did just a little play testing and a Brit army after already having been landed can do 3 damage on a German army if the German army is already weakened down. In fact in the five times I tested it, it did a 3 damage four out of the five times. But that was a weakened army already having been attacked by two French armies. However, in that case getting a 3 damage is not unusual.

A Brit army landing in an amphib attack can do up to 5 damage I believe against a weakened German army. So if you have two French armies with HQ support attack a German full strength army and weaken it about 4-6 points down to around 5, the British army landing in an Ambhib attack has a fair chance to finish it off.

But if the Brit army lands and attacks before the French armies do, then a 3 kill seemed to be the usual damage. But if the German army is already weakened then the damage is often higher than 3 it seems.

I will have to see if I can put any of this into my defense of France.

[ May 05, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Curry ]