Oak Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I have a question for the experts. If units from different countries but the same side (for example, Germany + Italy in Russia or USA + UK in France) are attacking together is there any negative impact on supply? For example, can Italian units cut or reduce supply lines for the Germans if both are attacking together in the USSR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 That's a good question. Hope someone knows the answer to that. What about mpp resources? If an Italian unit take garisson in Kiev, will the mpp's flow to Italy or Germany? May sound like a dumb question, but I never really gave it any thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 HQs provide supply to all allied units within their range, so it doesn't matter. There are no negative effects, such as being closer to a lower supply HQ negating higher supply from another HQ. Dan Fenton and I posted some good errata to the Strategy Guide back in August or September which covered some supply issues, which may be worth digging up again. I'm pretty sure resource MPPs go to the side that currently has hex control. So if Germany captures Kiev but an Italian unit later occupies it, Italy gets both the MPPs for it and the ability to build units there. Plunder obviously goes to whoever captures a capital city, but after that MPP sharing can occur simply by changing hex control. I suppose there's a strategy in there someplace ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I don't think a German HQ would supply an Italian unit. I seem to remember that when I click the German HQ, its the closest german units that are highlited. Italian units are ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Don't confuse command links with supply. That German HQ can only have command links to 5 German units. But it can provide supply to an unlimited number of Germans, axis minors, and axis allies, as long as they are within range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I think the MPPs of a city/recource go to that country to whose color it belongs to. So if a german unit captures Kiev for instance and later an italien corps is operated to Kiev to protect it, the MPPs still go to Germany (color won't change). Only if the italian unit marches into the city, the color changes and the MPPs will then go to Italy. That's basically what Pzgndr said . Building of units, however, requires a direct connection to the capital. So if Italy should control Kiev it cannot build units there unless there is a direct hex connection from Rom to Kiev consisting exclusively of italian controlled hexes. Feldtrompeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Pzgndr posted: "Plunder obviously goes to whoever captures a capital city, but after that MPP sharing can occur simply by changing hex control." I don't think that is correct. Of cause the plunder goes to whoever captures a capital. But after the surrender the color of the cities and recources of that defeated country won't change unless the enemy reconqueres it. So if Youguslavia i.e. is taken by German forces and Germany gets the plunder, Italy will never be able to get MPPs from Belgrad no matter how much they march into Belgrad and how long they place an italian unit on top of Belgrad. Feldtrompeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 correct, but also note that prior to a countries surrender the MPP production goes to the nation who last had a unit in the production hex. Something to be aware of if an Italian unit wanders through a captured oil field in the USSR and becuase you probably want those MPPs to go to Germany! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 So ... if Germans are in the front line against Russia and Italians in the rear it won't hurt the supply levels of the German front line units but could mean that Germany is unable to build in conquered Russian cities because the direct link to the German capital has been cut by Italian-owned hexes. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hi Oak Yes, that is correct. For instance if Germany gets Yugoslavia, the Albanian city and port go up from 5 MPPs to 10 MPPs but Italy cannot build units in that city since there is no direct connection to Rom. Likewise it can happen that Germany cannot build units in Russia if there is no direct connection from Berlin to that particular city. Feldtrompeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 If during the campaign against Russia the Germans take a city, and later on they move out of it, operating in an Italian unit, the city will stay German. I prefer to give Yugo and Greece to Italy, so that they can create units all along the western Balkans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Oak, Good question. I always assumed it didnt matter. But it may. Can two countries use the same city/center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 If during the campaign against Russia the Germans take a city, and later on they move out of it, operating in an Italian unit, the city will stay German. Well, it depends what you mean by "staying German" If you move an Italian unit into a USSR city that Germany captured then Italy gets those MPPs at the end of the turn. I just confirmed it with a hotseat test. (In my test I moved the unit in, but I expect it must be the same if you operate the unit in). I may run a test to see if it is true that if Italy captures the western USSR cities then Germany cannot bulld units in central USSR... Not sure I believe this. But it is pretty academic, it would be a very strange game if Italy was taking more that one or two cities in USSR... [ January 09, 2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Hi FriendlyFire You misunderstood Bill. Of cause, if you move into a russian city with an italian unit the city will belong to Italy and hence the MPPs. But if you OPERATE (that's what Bill said) then it is different. If Germany captures a city in Russia and later an italian unit is OPERATED into that city, the city still belongs to Germany despite the italian unit on top of it. And besides: The question of building units in Russia was not discussed with regards to the possession of russian cities but with regards to a DIRECT HEX-CONNECTION from capital to the city in question. It is possible that Germany possesses ALL the western russian cities and still will not be able to build units on them even if the cities are 5 MPP cities. If there is no connection to Berlin, building of units in occupied cities won't work. Feldtrompeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Interesting! I forget that if there is no landbridge you cannot place a land unit there regardless of having 5 supply guess cause usually I never run into that problem. Italians do well in Russia but not that well. Some people argue on how powerful to make Italy... sometimes I finding teching with Italy easier, it seems either a bug or merely the chance factor but there are many times I reach AT 3-4 with Italian Units and regardless of their low rated HQs still gives a big power hit against invading US forces... Rarely though can I afford Italian Jets and German Jets, don't think that's a good idea. Think Germans cause of the higher MPP Yield should shoot for Jets<and Heavy Tanks> and Italians for AT... I've even tried my hand at Italian Naval Technology but that seems to be a usual dead end Big question: It seems that Allied or Axis HQs enhance the supply of other Satelite or Sister Nations after they've gone through the usual 5 of there own. Granted that there is less than 5 within their OP area and there is Friendlies within that range. Am I wrong? I'm not sure, but I heard a few of the big guys discussing the French HQ in this manner for some reason. Could've been just for later Disbandonment P.S. Supply is the biggest reason I notice for new players losing... was my own, that and basic strategic erros P.S.S. The Germans should start with AT 1 with the 88 [ January 09, 2004, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Liam ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Yes, checks out. If you move into the city then ownership changes but if you operate it doesn't. Wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the tip. I echo the experience about Italian AT - I find even with 1 chit I make good progress up the ladder almost every game. Part of the reason is probably that the Soviets usually invest heavily in AT and the catchup rule helps a bit, but I still find it surprising. [ January 11, 2004, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 @LIAM IMHO Italy must have something like a tech advantage in AT...i reach everytime lvl 12-13 with one chit also with russia at lvl 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 IMHO Italy must have something like a tech advantage in AT...i reach everytime lvl 12-13 with one chit also with russia at lvl 0. Yes, I have seen this often, Italians go real fast in AT, much faster than the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Don't confuse command links with supply. That German HQ can only have command links to 5 German units. But it can provide supply to an unlimited number of Germans, axis minors, and axis allies, as long as they are within range. OK, I just finished attacking and taking England. I had 3 Italians, 15 Axis(7 jets), and 3 axis HQ's. When I had London, the 3 axis HQ's were keeping the 15 axis units in supply nicely, including 2 units in mountain hexes. The Italians seemed out of supply, even though two of them were closer to the HQ's than a couple of the axis. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 HI KDG You can give it the ultimate try: Invade the african part of Vichy with only one Italian unit. Don't attack the Corps in Algier. Then in the next turn your supply will be 0. Now do the same sending one German HQ along with the Italian unit. If the Italian unit will have a supply greater than 0 in the second turn, you'll have the answer. Personally I think the German HQ will supply the Italian unit, but not as much as it will supply a German unit, because the class of the HQ will not be considered in the supply calculation. Try it out Feldtrompeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 I tried it out: German HQ do supply Italian Units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Personally I think the German HQ will supply the Italian unit, but not as much as it will supply a German unit Supply will be the same for any HQ. Let me find that Strategy Guide errata posting for you new guys and bump that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Hi Pzgndr You are correct, the supply will be the same for German and Italian units if near a German HQ. I had readiness in mind ... sorry Feldtrompeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Which of these statements is true. The only "rule" in the HQ support algorithm is to support the closest unit first, in no special order. Basically, the game uses a spanning tree algorithm where the HQ keeps spanning out until it collects the maximum five friendly units within five hexes. or is it this But it can provide supply to an unlimited number of Germans, axis minors, and axis allies, as long as they are within range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 They both are. Seriously, the first statement is in the context of the HQ leadership bonus (commander rating and combat morale bonus) which is limited to five attached units. The second statement is in the context of supply which helps all friendly units within range. The leadership and supply functions are separate and different. Looking at the original words "HQ support algorithm" I can see how this may be misinterpreted. I'll edit the original errata post to read "HQ attachment algorithm" and clarify that this is limited to the leadership function. HQ's are complicated units. The supply details were particularly elusive and hopefully the errata clarifications are useful. Understanding all these details and differences is the first challenge. Effectively employing HQ's throughout a game is the other challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts