reiver Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 OK so your Axis and youve spent too much effort and resources on Poland its now turn 2 or 3 and you still havent taken Denmark. In the meantime those evil Allied dudes have invaded Belgium and Holland, got the plunder and say for arguments sake with the fierce air battles managed to get Luftwaffe down to 2 understrength airfleets and the RN is ramnpaging around the Baltic......Help! I need advice, counselling, rehab' do any of the legends of SC have any suggestions about resolving the deadlock preferably in my favour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Give up and take refuge in Switerland. OR You need to read Terif's hints on how to beat the LC gambit. It can be beaten using his way, I have done it, it works, it takes a bit more patience but the war is not lost. Its in the stickys up on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashak Mani Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Is the LC gambit that good ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesopo123 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Dude, It does not take three turns to take Poland. Your plunder on poland should get you an extra airfllet also with your income and then you would be ready to jump into lc by turn three if you are really concerned about the lc gambit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 LC gambit can be beat. A couple of critical rolls happen early if the Axis gamble. I allowed ZappSweden to do the LC-Allied Gambit in the Ryder Cup Captain's match, I took care of business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agamemnon Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 The best way to deal with the LC Gambit is to take the LC on turn 2, every game. I have beaten the LC Gambit, but it's a lot easier to just take them on turn 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Originally posted by reiver: OK so your Axis and youve spent too much effort and resources on Poland its now turn 2 or 3 and you still havent taken Denmark. In the meantime those evil Allied dudes have invaded Belgium and Holland, got the plunder and say for arguments sake with the fierce air battles managed to get Luftwaffe down to 2 understrength airfleets and the RN is ramnpaging around the Baltic......Help! I need advice, counselling, rehab' do any of the legends of SC have any suggestions about resolving the deadlock preferably in my favour? FIRST RULE: DON´T PANIK!!! Like Yoda "Terif" explained and demonstrates to anyone who cares it is quite "easy" to counter the "Dutch Gambit". Try to get a unit next to Brüssel. Every round you attack Brüssel and the Maginotline the Italian war readiness jumps up => Italy enters the war REALLY fast. Don´t spend your airfleets on hunting ships!!! British fleet in the Baltic ? Hope they have a nice day there. Hide your ships in the habour of Kiel and you should be fine. Use airfleets on taking Kopenhaagen and/or making breakthroughs. Try to get a "foothold" on the other side of the rhine. From the it should be only a matter of time to work your way to Paris with the combined pressure on the southern front. Note: There should be always a "fast" unit tank or corps avaible to move in the gap you just cleared. Many times I have seen players making a potential breakthrough but they had no troops ready to move in the gap. Additional advantages for the axis of the Dutch Gambit. - Good chance to capture part of the british med fleet if they lingered to long in the med... - Delayed entry of the US in the war - Italy gets quite strong and start to clean up the med early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Mmmm...don't think I would call it easy though. Give me the chance to Allie-LC-Gambit, I'll do it everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I believe I am the evil Allies who initiated this post! Sombra, I would agree with Rambo here, the Gambit is quite strong and unless Axis can break through reasonably quickly the game is lost. Probably if you find it easy to break the gambit the Allied player is making some fundamental mistake. consider: - Allies hold the MPP advantage even after Italy enters, so the clock is working against Axis. - A good allied player will defend in depth so you won't gain more than one hex on the other side of the Rhine. Usually the Allied player will have sold assets in order to finance a French HQ so the counter attack will be strong, often strong enough to regain the hex. Expecially if you stuck a corps in the gap. corps => corpse With plunder from Holland and with a bit of luck Ireland a few turns later, the UK can buy an extra air and HQ and make things much harder. With some extra Allied MPPs from the bid it the situation could be grim indeed! regarding the last point, I disagree that Italy gets to clean up the med, without air support Alexandria will not fall easily, and you can't afford to take air out of Europe. The airfleet at Malta will probably get rebased but the UK won't miss the 5 MPP (besides this is lost to sub raids). And fending the Italian land forces off takes only a couple of entrenched corps! I have personally never been in a game where the Gambit lost, for sure it is possible to beat the gambit. But don't count on it! FF [ June 23, 2004, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Originally posted by Friendly Fire: I believe I am the evil Allies who initiated this post! Sombra, I would agree with Rambo here, the Gambit is quite strong and unless Axis can break through reasonably quickly the game is lost. Probably if you find it easy to break the gambit the Allied player is making some fundamental mistake. consider: - Allies hold the MPP advantage even after Italy enters, so the clock is working against Axis. - A good allied player will defend in depth so you won't gain more than one hex on the other side of the Rhine. Usually the Allied player will have sold assets in order to finance a French HQ so the counter attack will be strong, often strong enough to regain the hex. Expecially if you stuck a corps in the gap. corps => corpse With plunder from Holland and with a bit of luck Ireland a few turns later, the UK can buy an extra air and HQ and make things much harder. With some extra Allied MPPs from the bid it the situation could be grim indeed! regarding the last point, I disagree that Italy gets to clean up the med, without air support Alexandria will not fall easily, and you can't afford to take air out of Europe. The airfleet at Malta will probably get rebased but the UK won't miss the 5 MPP (besides this is lost to sub raids). And fending the Italian land forces off takes only a couple of entrenched corps! I have personally never been in a game where the Gambit lost, for sure it is possible to beat the gambit. But don't count on it! FF @ Friendly Fire: I would like to try a counter Dutch Gambit against an experienced player. While I prefer to attack as Axis the LC on turn 2, sometimes I try to take out Warschau on turn 1 running into the risk of a Dutch Gambit. Cleaning up the Med: => ITaly enters the war early , though it builds up its strengh and can buy already the necessary troops for the later expansions. The Dutch Gambit is a DEADLY strategy against an inexperienced player. If the axis player is more experienced and has his troops ready for a counterattack on turn 3, I believe the strategy can backfire for the allies. Still I admit the "safer" way for the axis is to take simply the LC on turn 2... Advantages for the Axis player of a dutch gambit: - Delayed entry of the US - Early entrance of Italy - Risk of faillure of Dutch Gambit by the allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hi Sombra, what you say makes sense to me. Although I feel that by the time the Italians are making progress in the Med the situation in France will be decided... By the way, if Poland falls in turn 1 I believe I would cancel the Gambit - any opinions on this guys? Sombra, sure I would like to play a game, I haven't had a chance to defend the gambit against an experienced player so that would be fun. What bid if any would be fair for this experiment? And what time zone are you in, perhaps we can make it a quick TCP/IP game? [ June 23, 2004, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 @ Friendly Fire: I would like to play against you.Time zone CET+1 (Germany), ICQ336345303. Contact me if you see me on ICQ or we can set up a game for this weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiver Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 FF Actually you are one of a trio of players to hit me with LC gambit. That's why I thought I'd ask for help/advice from forum. Whatever happens I enjoy playing this game. Regards to all of my opponents Reiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Sombra, I am west coast Canada, GMT -8 I think. I might be able to squeeze online late Saturday night = Sunday morning for you. Reiver, just sent a turn. The French have a heavy tank division sitting on the Rhine backed up by 4 RAF fleets based near Paris... No help from the USA needed here I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Hi Friendly fire, though you are living GMT-8 and myself GMT +1 = 9 hours time difference. I will be online lets say 7:30 AM (sunday morning) and you will be online saturday night 10:30 PM? Regards Sombra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arngrim Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 *grin* Hmm, I _really_ hope that those 2 understrength airfleets are in our game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Hello Sombra, sure lets try for 7:30 AM your time Sunday morning, I can play for probably 2.5 hours. I haven't used ICQ so I need to figure out all that... what is a typical bid nowadays for the 1939 game? I was playing 200 at 1:8 but I think more players are using 1:5:20 now, is it correct? FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by Friendly Fire: Hello Sombra, sure lets try for 7:30 AM your time Sunday morning, I can play for probably 2.5 hours. I haven't used ICQ so I need to figure out all that... what is a typical bid nowadays for the 1939 game? I was playing 200 at 1:8 but I think more players are using 1:5:20 now, is it correct? FF Yes, 1:5:20 I suggest 175 MP? => 175MP GB, 875MP USA, 3500 MP Rusia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 OK as Allies I will launch the gambit in turn 2 unless Poland falls in turn 1. But if the Gambit fails, will we continue, after all we really want to explore Gambit busting? btw, I played around in hotseat mode and I definitely understand that it is possible to bust the gambit, question is, can it be done fast enough to make the Gambit unproductive? It should be interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Sombra my ICQ# is 301111935, I will look for you at 10:30 Pacific... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Though, in the end. Friendly fires "Dutch Gambit" failed but it was although due to his aggressive style to play. Afterwards I tried the dutch gembit and could hold france up to 06.1941though here it paid off. But in the end I have to admit it is easier and less stressful simply to take NL in turn two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Sombra: Though, in the end. Friendly fires "Dutch Gambit" failed but it was although due to his aggressive style to play. Afterwards I tried the dutch gembit and could hold france up to 06.1941though here it paid off. But in the end I have to admit it is easier and less stressful simply to take NL in turn two. It was much fun friendly fire. Thanks for the games :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Yes, thanks Sombra. In 06.1941 the Italians had taken Algeria and Egypt, heading for Iraq... RAF had lost an AF and the RN carriers were shot to hell. But still I would say the Gambit paid off for Sombra, the Royal Navy surface ships were in good shape, enough to stop sealion. And the German navy was toast. In our back to back game I almost held the line... I guess thats why it is called a.... gambit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 The option of destroying the UK's navy with AF also works. It will delay you liberating LC and taking France. But in the long run it can work very well for you. I did it. My opponent did LC Gambit, move all his navy to sink mine and bombard the shores. I had 4 AF (5 not long after) and went straight for his carriers with them and my 2 cruisers and subs. By the time it was all said and done, he had one carrier left and one battleship. Later on it prooved decisive. I had my whole Italian w/ experience Navy in the Atlantic blocking the USA, even landed 2 Italian corps in Canada. While the Italians ruled the Atlantic with some extra subs added, the Germans had no worried about a Western front. And the cost of the Allies for all of this let me keep 2 AF in France and force intercepts every turn, I had more xp, costing him more MPPs. The only thing it prevented me from doing is taking Spain and Portugal. It was not an issue. If you go after his Navy make SURE you can severly damage it within 2 rounds. After 3 he should no longer be in control of the waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Good point Blashy, but could backfire, given a enough time it is possible for the Allies to build a defense capable of stopping Germany at the Rhine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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