Hanish Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I bought CMBB three months ago and really liked it. I am now in the mood for something with more strategic scope. Should I buy this game, I have done some research that suggests a number of problems and concerns. But I have been happy with CM what do you folks say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RommelDAK Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I say that the only real way to tell is to download the demo. It's fully playable, so that will give you an excellent sense of the way it works: Strat Comm Look on menu to left (or blurb to right) to download demo. For the record, I LOVE Strategic Command, but cannot stand Combat Mission (I guess I'm one of the three or four people on the planet who think the latter! ). Dunno if that means you won't like SC or not. Anyway, no better way to know than to check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Hanish ,did you play the demo? I did and got instantly hooked.Don't be fooled by the old-fashioned look of this little beauty.Like stated many times on these forums,it's what's under the hood that matters.And believe me,that's quit alot. I have this game for about two months now and I'm a relatively newbie to this kind of wargames that have their roots in boardgames.It still surprises me and tends to pull me in like few others ever done before. Check it out it's defenitely worth the 25 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragoon19 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 1. the game is great fun with lots of interesting strategic decision in a very simple format. 2. the AI is good to learn the game and it get really interesting against a human opponent. Dragoon19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 If you liked High Command or Storm Across Europe. Buy it... Strategic Fast with good connections Relatively low bugs Good WW2 <only WW2 Simulator in Europe> worth a damned right now on a Strategic level play the demo...I'd like to see an upgrade!!! SC2 that's what I'd really like... with the full blown model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Play the Demo - that would be the best. However if your looking for a pro's point of view, read the artical in the Nov 2002 PC Gamer, they give an unbiased rating of the game (90% - a 'must buy') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Interesting that you should write. I bought CMBB for only 1 reason - because I loved SC so much that I wanted to support Battlefront! Actually I hate CMBB - I am not a tactical person and I couldn't even get through the tutorials. This game is BORING. Compared to the price tag of CMBB, SC was such a steal that I felt that I owed Battlefront more money so I wasted it on CMBB. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanish Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 You convinced me..I bought it two days ago. Cant wait to play against you all. Thanks, Hanish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanish Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 You convinced me..I bought it two days ago. Cant wait to play against you all. Thanks, Hanish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjhays Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I would buy it for the simple fact I have been waiting for a COS2 since 1991... now lets see if any body in here remembers that little jewel from the early 90's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Thanks for the advice regarding the demo. I’ve played it twice and was left baffled. I’ve read the FAQ that came with the demo, and find that there is an awful lot about the game that I simply don’t know and wasn’t able to pick up from these materials. There seems to be some similarities with the old Avalon Hill Third Reich game (although I can’t tell if there is any Breakthrough and Exploitation ability). Without the manual, it’s difficult to assess what the game portrays, and hence, its entertainment value. So, can anyone give five good reasons to buy this game? Thanks in advance, Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 That's a little puzzling, Ace. The basics of the game seem real simple and intuitive to me. Yeah, it takes a while to figure out what's going on with the command and supply rules, but essentials of it seem almost as easy as learning chess. LOL, and as hard to master. Once you get the game, the manual explains some of the nuances left out of the FAQ, and of course, this forum is the best resource of all for learning about the game. Didn't play the demo, so perhaps it just leaves you hanging in terms of realizing a final objective. That goal is simple, conquer other states for plunder and resources, smash the forces of your opponent and take over his territories for MPP and force a surrender. Others have done a good job above explaining what's good about the game. Suffice it for me to add that it gives an excellent flavor for the strategic challenges facing the opposing powers in WW2 without locking you into "on-rails" paths established by historical precedent. Often those stragegies do get repeated because they are obviously the soundest, but the game lends itself to creative "all's fair in war" approaches which keep you interested and coming back for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by Bullwinkle: Interesting that you should write. Actually I hate CMBB - I am not a tactical person and I couldn't even get through the tutorials. This game is BORING. Compared to the price tag of CMBB, SC was such a steal that I felt that I owed Battlefront more money so I wasted it on CMBB. True story. LMAO, Bullwinkle. For me the jury's still out on CMBB. I think I like it, but since I got SC, I haven't touched it. For the creme de la creme of boredom, ever tried playing the monstrous Stalingrad scenario in the East Front series ? :eek: By the time your 200th infantry platoon exchanges fire with the enemy during the first turn, you'll already be snoozing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 No, I haven't tried that one, but I've been wargaming since Tactics II came out in 1958. I've seen some horrendous games since that time which make CMBB thrilling! So I know what you mean...e.g. AH's 1914...don't get me started!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 BullWinkle Was AHs 1914 the one with all the tiny road and railroad and geographic and fortification details in every hex -- roads like narrow red veins with a German engineer unit creeping along behind the lines repairing railroads? It had infantry and cavalry units organized almost entirely as corps, each one breaking down into two or three stages. It took place entirely in northeastern France and Belgium. If so I bought it in '67 or 68 and it was the least playable game I've ever seen. Yet, if you ignored 90% of the rules it had some minor fun potential! [ February 11, 2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Thanks for the response, Steve. Originally posted by Steve C: That's a little puzzling, Ace. The basics of the game seem real simple and intuitive to me. You’re right – a lot of the things were fairly intuitive – moving, initiating combat, getting unit info, to name a few. But I didn’t have a clue as to what was going on in combat – what factors affect it or how. Yeah, it takes a while to figure out what's going on with the command and supply rules, but essentials of it seem almost as easy as learning chess. LOL, and as hard to master. Once you get the game, the manual explains some of the nuances left out of the FAQ, and of course, this forum is the best resource of all for learning about the game. You just hit the two topics that probably confused me the most – command and supply. The FAQ explains that HQs increase readiness and can impart a combat morale bonus to units attached to the HQ. It wasn’t clear to me if units could be assigned to different headquarters, nor how the combat morale bonus affected combat since combat units don’t have a stat for combat morale. The FAQ did mention supply, but only in regards to its necessity for operational movement. No mention of how/if it affects combat or other types of movement, nor how supply is determined. I would assume that supply is a critical factor in a game of this scope, so I would like to have a better understanding of how it is modeled. I’m not looking to master this game. I’d just like to have an understanding of what is going on in the demo so I can make an informed purchase decision. There’s nothing worse than finding out something about a game that makes you say, “If I’d known that, I wouldn’t have bought the game.” Over on the Combat Mission boards, there is a set of FAQ that has grown as more useful info is added to it. All the new clowns (like me) are encouraged to review it. Are there any posts here on the SC board that would greatly assist an ignoramus like me? Thanks, Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjhays Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 AH 1914 or even Guns of August we failures, never did find a good wargame for that period. As for Tactics2 I loved that game and that was what started my interest many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Yeah, Tactics II was the perfect primer wargame for it's time. Most of the AH games that followed till about 66 were very good with a few bombs. They never could make up their mind about the Battle of Gettysburg, hexes, squares, die cut ounters, rectangular divisions -- very confusing. I liked everything they put out up through Blitzkrieg, after that some of their games were great and others seemed awful. But that's a subjective evaluation, of course. I think SPI and a few spinoff companies put the spark back into the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbellamy Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 the best strategic WW1 game i ever played was called Fatal Alliances basically it was an expansion for World in Flames that came with a partial map overlay, new counters and rules that allowed you to recreate the earlier conflict it worked reasonably well without the massive stacks of counters that other systems forced upon you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Yes Jersey, 1914 was that bomb that you were thinking of. I don't know about you guys, but back in the early 60's we were DESPERATE for the next AH release. It didn't matter what it was, as soon as it hit the stores we'd buy it. Back then they would put out about 2 games a year so they had a very hungry audience - at least we in Buffalo were back in our high school days. Yes, some were clunkers but they did produce some classics as well. When SPI came along, AH was doomed. I had a lifetime subscription to SPI and so now have tons of magazines containing tons of games. My favorite? The Plot To Assassinate Hitler!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 BullWinkle Consider yourself envied. I used to live on those SPI magazines. The games were usually pretty good and I spent a lot of time around '71 and '72 hanging around their 23rd St. Manhattan Office/store. Those guys, especially a big British designer, used to love talking about history and warfare and you could easily kill an entire arternoon down there without regret. With AH I remember after D-Day they pretty much came out as Stalingrad, Afrika Korps, Battle of the Bulge, Guadalcanal, Midway, BlitzKrieg and after that it gets hazy. Funny how the earliest ones are the most clearly remembered! My favorite SPI game, though admittedly it may not have been their best, was Grande Armee , with all of Napoleons Central European Capmpaigns from 1805 through 1811, I believe (not certain of the exact years). It included multirated leaders, forced marches, supply depots and various interesting ideas such as assembling fast small units into slower but more powerful large units (Brig>Div>Corps>Army) each step less mobile but more powerful than the combined value of the lower echelon units that composed it. Presumably accounting for heavy artillery and sappers joining the assemblage. Of all the AH games I thought Jutland was the most fun, provided you had enough free floor space and no dog or cat running around. This sort of vintage board game discussion comes up every once in a while but I always find it interesting to compare opinions on these old warhorses. [ February 11, 2003, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Ace, Sorry, the lure of letting this thread morph into reminiscing about the old AH days has proven irrestistible, but I will try to respond to some of your concerns. Bear in mind that I've only had the game for a couple of weeks myself. Things are a little hard to find on the SC board. I come from a car forum background where everything is neatly compartmentalized in vBulletin. So when I'm on ClubWRX and want to read about brakes, I go to Suspension, turbo threads are on Engine Performance, I can BS about my track experiences on Road Racing, etc. When I came here I was sort of lost, no stickies, no subsets of threads based on common topics. It's 80 pages and hard to find things. But the Mods have spoken on this matter and this is how it's gonna be. If anyone can post links to a few essential "FAQ" threads, I would appreciate it too. But wandering through the pages has an appeal of its own, you never know what you'll find. Units cannot be assigned to specific HQ, aside from placing them near the commanders whom you'd like them to control. The computer does these assignments for you....Supply route has to be tracked back to city (or proximity to a friendly seaport for your ships). The supply capacity of the cities and ports can be reduced by bombing and naval bombardment. Your HQ can help with supply as well as combat, I think. The manual has some tables in it, such as terrain effects on combat, but doesn't explain everything. Anyhow, we're talking $25 here, so how bad of a risk are you running by springing for SC :confused: If the game shipped with a bound manual that didn't kill a $30 inkjet cartridge as the price of admission, I'd consider it a purchase well made at twice the price. [ February 11, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Steve C ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Bullwinkle and Jersey John, Man, you guys are bringing back fond memories of playing AH games in the 60's. My Dad gotten bitten by the bug badly starting with Tactics II. He used to make me play Tactics II and other games with him when I would much rather have been outside playing baseball But I grew to enjoy the games after a while. The ones you mentioned come readily to mind. Afrika Korps had a nice ebb and flow to it as I recall. Yeah, I hear ya on Jutland. I liked it too, but tough on the knees and hard to keep mom from vacuuming up the 5th Battle Squadron right when they were ready to lay some smack down on Hipper's battlecruisers. Bismarck was another good one. The tactical battle was nothing special, but the strategic game with the little screens hiding your ships was ace ! FOW in it's earliest form and lots of fun. Another good one in this genre was Flight of the Goeben, an S&T magazine game, one I have till this day (but nobody who wants to play it with me. ) Remember the Avalon Hill General ? Funniest part was the opponent wanted ads, either nerdish or bellicose in tone, often both. My dad once got roped into a group game of Panzerblitz I think it was, he was assigned an army group and had to make his moves and send them into "headquarters". Anyhow, "the Fuhrer" rapidly lost patience with his tentative handling of his divisions, and cashiered my old man, reaming him out with flaming directives from HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 10 Reasons to buy the game: 1. Great strategy game. 2. Simple to learn. 3. Many complex ways to play. 4. One of the best AI's on the market. 5. PBEM and TCP gaming. 6. Six patches so far. You can even talk to the programmer. 7. World War II setting. 8. Both sides are fun to play 9. Great community 10 The cost 1 HQ for every 5 units (5 closest I believe). Just buy a new HQ once you get more units and all units stay supplied. They provide both supply and combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Steve C You had pretty much the opposite experience that I had. My father thought I was nuts! In a sense I was, like when the Cuban Missle Crisis was going on and the world was waiting to be blown apart. We were living in NYC, a sure target if ever there was one, and I was listening to the radio and drawing a hexgrid across a world map for a global wargame. Even I thought that was screwy as it seemed likely we'd be vaporized before the rules were written. Funny you should mention baseball in there. There were a group of us playing as kids and it seemed nobody missed wargames during the summer. But when it got drizzly and snow started falling we were suddenly off to the Sahara. Afrika Korps did have a great ebb and flow but, as in real life, it was just about impossible for the Axis to get past El Alemain and the Brits to break El Ageihla (though I don't recall whether that town was actually on the map). I liked the way those two roads, exactly equal in legnth, circled that mountain group. It was also a good game to change things around on and experiment with. Most of those early AH games were good for that. The screens never worked for me and my friends. None of us could ever bring ourselves to say something had been spotted. So, when we used them all the units on both sides remained hidden, forever. It wasn't a fog with us, more like The Impenetrable Wall of War! From your description I can imagine your unfortunate dad being cashiered by some unseen psycho; hopefully he thought it was funny. The General used to have articles with titles like D-Day: Allied Plan that Crushes the Nazi Madman Every Time! That was why I liked SPI with it's rational magazine written by people who were less, shall we say, driven . Was Strategy and Tactics the name of their bi-monthly magazine? I don't recall for sure. Blackbellamy Never saw Fatal Alliance but it sounds interesting. [ February 12, 2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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