CM inaccuracy: dismounting guns

[Skipper]

To dismount a gun, it takes a minute or even two (!) in CM. Modern russian army has the following exercise:

tow starts 50 m away from the firing position;

tow gets to the firing position, makes an U-turn and stops;

the gun's crew disembarks from tow, dismounts the gun, loads, aims and fires.

To pass the exercise, the crew had to hit the target within 45 seconds.

[M. Bates]

Yes it takes an age in Combat Mission, and even when dismounted the gun still says "Reloading" in the status box.

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skipper:

To dismount a gun, it takes a minute or even two (!) in CM. Modern russian army has the following exercise:

tow starts 50 m away from the firing position;

tow gets to the firing position, makes an U-turn and stops;

the gun's crew disembarks from tow, dismounts the gun, loads, aims and fires.

To pass the exercise, the crew had to hit the target within 45 seconds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

one factor might be that crack or veteran crews do this better and faster

AND like everything else in CM those soldiers are in considered to be in a COMBAT situation and not a training drill and could be being fired at.

JUST about EVERYTHING in CM is slower and sort of less "tight" or accurate or timely to simulate the fog of war and vagaries of combat and doing anything in a combat zone. I think Steve and Charles have done a GREAT job in this respect with CMBO!

-tom w

[Skipper]

You know, 45 sec was a norm for regulars. Crack crews could do it all in 25 sec. Moreover, in the situation when you have an enemy tank rolling your way, you tend to do it faster, rather than slower.

[Guest ckoharik]

Ah, but what about the effect of being distracted by said tank coming at you. Yes, you would *want* to move faster but that could, and probably would, lead to mistakes or missteps.

A question regarding the example. What kind of terrain were they performing in? Open? Woods?

[Mr. Johnson--]

I've seen footage of German soldiers setting up either a 37mmATG or a 50mmATG, (can't rememeber, but I think a 50mm) and those guys set that thing up in no time flat. It was almost scary. Maybe they were on meth? Of course it was not a combat situation, just a training film.

[Chupacabra]

Another thought - in a CM situation, I think it's not unreasonable to assume that units, and gun crews in this particular situation, have been in the field for some time, are tired/cold/hungry, and are hampered for those reasons. They're also often being shot at. I'd think any of those would impare performance.

I'm not saying that CM models guns perfectly - it's entirely possible that guns should unlimber faster than they currently do. I've also seen photos of guns firing while limbered, which they can't currently do in CM.

I think there's some tweaking that could be done, but as always at this point those tweaks will have to wait until CM2.

Cheers.

[Mr. Johnson--]

agreed Chupacabra.

[SenorBeef]

"It doesn't work like that in combat conditions" is a common excuse apologizers for any potential flaws in CM. You can set up a map wherein the only enemy opposition is a no-ammo FO on the other side of the map, and unlimber a gun on a completely flat and open map, and it would still take an unrealistically long time. They're not under fire, being suppressed.. they simply take too long to set up. Now, if CM modelled a longer delay time when an MG was firing at them, then that excuse is perfectly justified, but thats not the case here. It is, indeed, possible that they simply made an error.

[Guest Babra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SenorBeef:

It is, indeed, possible that they simply made an error.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, watch out for the "black helicopters", man.

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skipper:

To dismount a gun, it takes a minute or even two (!) in CM. Modern russian army has the following exercise:

tow starts 50 m away from the firing position;

tow gets to the firing position, makes an U-turn and stops;

the gun's crew disembarks from tow, dismounts the gun, loads, aims and fires.

To pass the exercise, the crew had to hit the target within 45 seconds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just curious, how many shells did the crew unload in those 45 seconds? If all the crew is busy getting the gun setup who is left to unload additional shells?

Granted, the guns in CM do take longer to deploy than the examples listed in this thread, but what you get is a gun with a full loadout. Something to consider.

[Radar]

Hey, I don't know an all but there is not too much to do to setup a gun to direct fire. It takes very little prep time (a whole battery could setup in around 10 min. and that would be for indirect fire!). Yes even the biggies don't take much to setup for direct fire.

On about loadouts...ya can't fit a CM loadout of most towed weapons on the transport vehicle, where would the crew and their equiptment go?

[ 05-05-2001: Message edited by: Radar ]

[SenorBeef]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

Just curious, how many shells did the crew unload in those 45 seconds? If all the crew is busy getting the gun setup who is left to unload additional shells?

Granted, the guns in CM do take longer to deploy than the examples listed in this thread, but what you get is a gun with a full loadout. Something to consider.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With a tank rolling up the hill to your front, I don't think you're going to hear "Hey, guys, we can't fire until we have all 60 shells unloaded. So just sit tight"