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Guest Martin Cracauer

Originally posted by MantaRay: Sadly our society would rather forget everything and pretend we live at DisneyWorld. I for one know kids of today have very little knowledge of why this symbol is so linked with evil of times past.

I have often seen the opinion that the German law against Nazi symbol use is meant to pretend that the third reich never existed.

While I am not 100% convinced that the law is good as it is, let me explain some things about it:

First of all, usage of Nazi symbols (more precisely: "Symbols of organizations hostile to the constitution") is not entirely

forbitten. You are allowed to use it for educational purposes and in fact German history books (and schoolbooks) don't hide it at all. German history teaching is first class, BTW, especially when it comes to the 20th century, including the militarism that lead to WW1.

This law is used as a tool. On right-wing demonstrations, it allows you to arrest people showing these signs (including the Hitler greeting) or to disband the demonstrarion. You have to know that the right to demonstrate is under special protection in Germany, comparable to the right of free speech in the U.S. If you wouldn't have this law, you couldn't do much against mobs in the streets celebrating Hitler, the NSDAP and the third reich. And people try to do that in increasing strength for 10 years now.

Originally posted by MantaRay:

To bottle it up and try to hide it from view is one reason it remains such a powerful symbol to anyone who still holds on to the sick beliefs, or is foolish enough to be led to this by others.

I have to agree to this point. The usage as a tool I just described faded away within the last two years. The right-wing people learned a lot. Nowaday's they don't do stupid marches in the intention to tangle with the police and get a bloody nose. Nowaway the leaders go far to avoid any illegal activity on such demonstrations. And they turn any law that could be considered unbalanced in its left/right coverage and/or any law that could be interpreted as lowering constitution rights for right-wing people only to their own advantage, by pointing out possible unfairness.

Of course, it doesn't matter even slightly whether some of these laws are in fact unfair or not. Neither the state, the police nor the right-wing people care. However, when you deliver ammunition to people you are fighting, something goes wrong.

Forbidding third reich symbols on things like models (even model railroads) and in games is questionable anyway. It seems to me that this is the major source of the misconceptions other country's people have about these laws.

Martin

[This message has been edited by Martin Cracauer (edited 02-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Martin Cracauer (edited 02-27-2001).]

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I think that it is wrong to make laws that criminalize people because of what they believe. I live in Denmark where freedom of speech is a cornerstone of our society.

Even though I am disgusted by the views of the nazis, they have the right to believe what they want and the right to use the symbols of their beliefs in public. Of course, should the nazis commit a crime they should be punished, freedom of speech is not a shield that can be used so people are allowed to threaten others.

I strongly believe that by criminalizing these organizations and their symbols, they are made even more mysterious and attractive to young people. When they are allowed to demonstrate in public they are exposed as what they are: Confused people, frightened by a world they cannot comprehend.

To outlaw them would make martyrs of them, "fighters for freedom outlawed by a cruel and unjust system", I can see the propaganda material now.

Anyway that's what I think

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Hey all,

Well, I tried to send them to Rob/1 but his email bounced them. They are still rather large, even zipped. Each file is between 3.6 and 5 Mbs. They are large because they are still 24 bit color hi res images. I don't particularly want to reduce the quality to shrink their size.

Thanks for the offer Rob/1. I appreciate it. If no one else can help out, these will have to go in the dust bin till CMHQ is back up, or I decide to fork over the cash for a domain.

Chris

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What the hell is a Jagdcarcajou?

CM Recon

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Originally posted by Jagdcarcajou:

snip**

Well, I tried to send them to Rob/1 but his email bounced them. \ I don't particularly want to reduce the quality to shrink their size.

snip**

Chris

Chris i can host them and I dont think my mail will bounce them...

give it a try

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Berlin calling, Berlin calling,

when Berlin calls it pays to listen.....

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http://ponyshow.com some screenshots

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Originally posted by Jagdcarcajou:

Hey all,

Well, I tried to send them to Rob/1 but his email bounced them. They are still rather large, even zipped. Each file is between 3.6 and 5 Mbs. They are large because they are still 24 bit color hi res images. I don't particularly want to reduce the quality to shrink their size.

Thanks for the offer Rob/1. I appreciate it. If no one else can help out, these will have to go in the dust bin till CMHQ is back up, or I decide to fork over the cash for a domain.

Chris

Thats because my Hotmail is down...

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Guest MantaRay

Jag, you said they bounced to me too. My Outlook was screwed up for about 12 hours, try to resend them to me, or email me and I will give ya an FTP to send them to.

Ray

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Hey all,

Ok, I have decided to host these one at a time on my site! I appreciate all the kind words and the offers to host.

The first set available (in all resolutions) is the "USA" version. It is available on the Mods page of my site (along with my crappy King Tiger - thanks Kitty, make me look bad). I will be replacing it next week, and each Wednesday after that, until they have all been hosted at least once.

Once again, thanks for the encouragement. I consider this a small accomplishment compared to the "mod kings" whose images grace my splash screens, but a small improvement nonetheless.

Enjoy!

Chris

------------------

What the hell is a Jagdcarcajou?

CM Recon

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Originally posted by Jagdcarcajou:

It is available on the Mods page of my site (along with my crappy King Tiger - thanks Kitty, make me look bad

It's not crappy. =(

Kitty

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Bumpity bump

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"Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses

open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth."

-Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916)

[This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 03-01-2001).]

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