offtaskagain Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Does anybody know if either of these guns were AT capable? I know about the Pak 44 but I wanna know if the flak versions could do it. I'm drooling over the thought of a twin 128 mount in a Berlin battle :eek: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 My sentiments exactly. Especially that the Battle for Berlin was the axis last stand. I am sure these "exotic" AA guns (the twin 128mm AA is surely a beaut, I have seen a picture of this gun in a german military field book). I had always wondered how often this gun was employed, how many numbers were made and if it was used in the AT role often or not. Surely in Berlin they used everything they had. Would be neat to have that ability in a CM operation of the Battle of Berlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Dear god! can you imagine being a Hurricane pilot and having one of those rip though your wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Not sure that there were many Hurricanes in use by 1945!! IIRC not many dual mounts were made, adn they were all emplyed on FLAK towers, so aren't likely to have been much use in ground battles. But I have seen photos of a F-105 hit in the wing by a 100+mm shell over Vietnam - IIRC there was a guy standing in the hole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike the bike: Not sure that there were many Hurricanes in use by 1945!! IIRC not many dual mounts were made, adn they were all emplyed on FLAK towers, so aren't likely to have been much use in ground battles. But I have seen photos of a F-105 hit in the wing by a 100+mm shell over Vietnam - IIRC there was a guy standing in the hole!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If there was ever a place where Flak towers existed, it was Berlin. Also, Nuremberg had a ton of flak batteries that raised hell when we finally took it. 128s were responsible for alot more AA kills than 88s. I saw a picture of the 105 and it looks identical to a Flak 88. I'm assuming it was a scaled up version like Pak38 to Pak40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Would guns mounted on flak towers be able to depress and fire at the ground? I doubt it. Those flak towers were as big as apartment buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra: Would guns mounted on flak towers be able to depress and fire at the ground? I doubt it. Those flak towers were as big as apartment buildings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There is a good picture of one in Cornelius Ryan's The Last Battle. The thing was huge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: There is a good picture of one in Cornelius Ryan's The Last Battle. The thing was huge!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The one in the Tiergarten was something like 100 yards on each side and 5 stories tall. I think it had 4 twin 128s at the corners. Those probably couldn't have depressed enough to hit armor, though there were more guns scatterd around the sides that may have. I've heard it contained a bomb shelter for 5000 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 http://www.feldgrau.com/weaprod.html Heres a good stats page showing production numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 From those stats I would say the 105 Flak should be included in CM2 as around 5000 were produced. I still haven't gotten any answers about AT capability though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 Here's a photo of a twin 128 mount (I think): http://www.danshistory.com/ww2/flak.html Note the level of the railing in the background - this gun is not going to fire at low angle at anything. Also note the size of the bloody thing!! :eek: [ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: Mike the bike ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 I don't know about that; there's always some depression inherent in guns. My 155mm could depress to about -4 degrees. And yes, that sucker is _really_ long; it's barely 100mm shorter than the 52 calibres I worked with. The muzzle velocity doesn't seem that high, though; 880m/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike the bike: But I have seen photos of a F-105 hit in the wing by a 100+mm shell over Vietnam - IIRC there was a guy standing in the hole!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If that shell would of exploded, im sure that guy wouldn't been standing there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: I still haven't gotten any answers about AT capability though.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I seriously doubt fixed flak batteries would be issued with AT ammunition, or anything but fuzed burst ammo for that matter. That would suggest that someone had to believe in the first place that flak batteries in Germany would one day face tanks. I won't lose any sleep if they're not in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 The flakturm were very impressive and several survive today. Go to http://freespace.virgin.net/roy.smith5/berlin.htm and check it out for yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 28, 2001 Author Share Posted May 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra: I seriously doubt fixed flak batteries would be issued with AT ammunition, or anything but fuzed burst ammo for that matter. That would suggest that someone had to believe in the first place that flak batteries in Germany would one day face tanks. I won't lose any sleep if they're not in.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 105s weren't fixed that I know of. Obviously the twin 128s were. In von Lucke's book he has an account from a grenadier who mentions during a bombing attack a bomb shattering their 10.5 cm AT gun, so that got me thinking about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 OK - some facts and figures: 105mm Flak38 and 39 Elev -3 to 85 deg. In August 44 there were 116 on railway carriages, 877 statically emplaced and and 1025 on Sonder Anhanger 201 trailers. The Flak 41 was a better performer, but the 105 was kept in production because not enough 41's were being made. 12.8cm Flak 40: Elev -3 to 88 deg. Only static guns were made aftre 1942, and it was considered too heavy and clumsy for field use for which the Flak 41 was developed. In Feb 1945 6 mobile guns were in use (the only 6 ever made), together with 362 fixed and 201 on rail carriages. 12.8cm Flakzwilling 40 (twin 128's): Elevation 0-88 deg. Developed to replace an unsuccessful 150mm design - the flak towers in Berlin got built for the 15cm gun, so they needed something to fill them!! Production rate was only 1 per month, and 34 were in service by Feb 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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