coe Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 What about this? HMG squads (especially MG32/42) can downgrade but never upgrade...i.e. they can progressively abandon their equipment - go from HMG >> MMG >> LMG I suppose you might need to do this in situations where you need to run...and this also allows an HMG squad not to become immobile when down to one. I would like to see HMG squads have some grenades though and be able to abandon their HMG and become like a small squad without an MG (and all standard weapons that would be in an infantry squad) I guess this would denote studying what an MG squad carries in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Most MG squad members in WWII were issued only a pistol as a personal weapon, so without the MG they are little better than crews. MG crews spend a great deal of effort remaining a good distance away from the enemy usually well outside grenade range, and when you have 200+ pounds of gun, tripod and ammo to haul you really don't want to carry grenades you'll never use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 If I recall correctly, HMG squads that lose a few men(or all men exept one) are downgraded. They lose some firepower and half of their ammo. In order for a HMG squad (with one man left) to be mobile he would have to abandon the gun. There is no way possible he could carry the gun, the tripod, the ammo boxes, and water can(if water cooled). I think an 'Abandon gun' command has already been talked about before. I'm not sure if BTS plans to model it in CM2. I like the idea of grenades. All infantry squads should have grenades. Also, I'd be nice if they could model the other soldier's guns because in a six man HMG squad everyone will carry a gun and only one will be feeding the ammo belt. The other men will be providing support fire as well as spotting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coe Posted March 29, 2001 Author Share Posted March 29, 2001 So besides the gunner and feeder, the other MG squad members usually had only pistols? Now with one member left in a squad, granted you can't move the HMG but can you (in the case of the MG42) convert it into an LMG by abandoning alot of the stuff...You could move then, or by abandoning the MG42 entirely you could just have your rifle left! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedlam Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 I saw a picture once of an American MG squad (late in the war). They where set up and the crew had lined grenades up along there position for easy access incase the fighting got close and personal I believe. Nedlam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Germans did the same thing, (I figure everyone dide) but only on defence I believe. PeterNZ ------------------ - Official owner of the sig files of Dalem, Croda and Joe Shaw - Der Kessel scenario design group Combat Vision movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Originally posted by coe: So besides the gunner and feeder, the other MG squad members usually had only pistols? Now with one member left in a squad, granted you can't move the HMG but can you (in the case of the MG42) convert it into an LMG by abandoning alot of the stuff...You could move then, or by abandoning the MG42 entirely you could just have your rifle left! As far as US infantry is concerned, Im pretty sure that only officers were issued pistols. Everyone else had rifles, carbines or submachineguns. The only way to convert an Heavy MG42 into a LMG is to have a bipod handy. I don't think that bipods were commonly carried by the the HMG squads. And there's probably an involved process taking apart the HMG from the tripod and then mounting on a bipod. I don't think it's really worth modeling this in CM. As for the Allied HMGs it's not possible to strip them down to a MMG or LMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Originally posted by Pak40: As far as US infantry is concerned, Im pretty sure that only officers were issued pistols. Everyone else had rifles, carbines or submachineguns. The only way to convert an Heavy MG42 into a LMG is to have a bipod handy. I don't think that bipods were commonly carried by the the HMG squads. And there's probably an involved process taking apart the HMG from the tripod and then mounting on a bipod. I don't think it's really worth modeling this in CM. As for the Allied HMGs it's not possible to strip them down to a MMG or LMG. Having actually fired an MG34 from a tripod, I can assure you that the gun does not have to have the bipod removed in order to fit on the tripod. The MG is quite simple to remove, also. There are photos of the gun I fired in SOLDAT Volume V (you will see my name in the credits, as well). The bipod is clearly still on the gun. Check out German INfantry in Action by Squadron Signal - all photos of tripod mounted MGs show them with a bipod attached. [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 03-29-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I stand corrected. Mike, in your opinion, is it feasable for one man to carry an MG42 with bipod and ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by Pak40: I stand corrected. Mike, in your opinion, is it feasable for one man to carry an MG42 with bipod and ammo? It was done on the assault, with the drum attached - all 75 rounds. Wouldn't last long. But if he hooked up with another squad, where each man had 100 round links around his neck, it would increase their firepower. Allowing a CMer to do that might provide too much co-ordination (read: micromanagement). I would be interested in knowing what sMG crews were trained to do in the event of casualties - I doubt that they would simply run and join the nearest infantry squad, as they were trained specialists, and usually part of the Heavy companies of infantry battalions (or special MG units). I would suspect that like AFV crews, they would be obligated to save their equipment and/or themselves if the gun could not. What about destroying or spiking friendly heavy weapons to prevent capture? This is not simulated in CM either. Whatever BTS decides to do, it is going to create waves. Perhaps a random chance of the gun simply being abandoned needs to be implemented, with a possibility of one man also detaching the gun and taking it along as an LMG with scant ammo? It kind of hinges on what the SOPs were - which I confess to having no knowledge of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by coe: So besides the gunner and feeder, the other MG squad members usually had only pistols? I'd have to drag my books out and do a search to say for sure, but as I recall it they were armed something like this: American MMG teams were armed with 2 pistols, at least 1 M1 Garand and 1 M1 carbine. German HMG teams had 2 or (more likely) 3 rifles and the team leader probably had an SMG. I'm not sure what the gunner and assistant gunner had for personal side arms. Maybe none at all in light of all else that they were carrying, but in practiced they might have scrounged pistols. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coe Posted March 30, 2001 Author Share Posted March 30, 2001 Well lets see in operations, a depleted German machine gun squad (i.e. immobile only one person remaining) could be incorporated into a regular infantry squad or if only two remaining could be converted into an LMG squad for the next part of the operation. How are barrel changes simulated...I heard last night on a History channel show that it took 2 minutes to change a MG42 barrel. Note also that the MG42 and 34 had semi automatic modes too. btw, are pistols simulated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Originally posted by coe: How are barrel changes simulated...I heard last night on a History channel show that it took 2 minutes to change a MG42 barrel. You must be confused. I think the MG42 is quite famous for it's quick barrel change. HMG crews would have 3-4 and change them whenever needed. Of coarse, I could be putting my foot in my mouth again. pistols are in CM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Pak40 you are correct. The slot on the side of the MG 42 barrel jacket was designed for quick changes - a few seconds was all it took. Replacing a firing pin, on the other hand, would take considerably longer than a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 COE i believe that only the MG-34 had the option of semi-automatic. It was deleted from the 42 to make it quicker to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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