Kanonier Reichmann Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 I have started to look at books which cover the Eastern Front in order to "bone up" for the upcoming CM 2 game and I was wondering if the above book by Alan Clark is considered by the grog community to be one of the better ones? Has it aged well (since it was first written in the mid 60's) or is it considered that Clarks conclusions fall short with the advent of new information regarding this particular theatre. I just didn't want to invest the time in reading this opus if it's considered fatally flawed for whatever reason. Any opinions from those who have read it would be appreciated. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 Go for Glantz (Clash of Titans) to start with - very accessible and includes the archives opened in the early 1990s. Later you can upgrade to Ericsson (Road to Stalingrad/Road to Berlin, both not very accessible) I heard that Clarke has a good style though, can't help you on the content. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homba Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 I recently finsihed Clark's 'Barbarossa' and found it extremely good, in both content and style. I would highly recommend it. Homba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGrayLine Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 Yes! Barbarosa is a GREAT book! It has aged very well. It deals very well with the war in the East as a whole, but if you want it from an individual soldier's perspective, I highly recommend "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer. ------------------ LongGrayLine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 I read Barbarossa by Clark during my "two weeks" with the Reserves last year, and let me tell you, it is an extremely informative and well-written account of the War in Russia. Currently I am reading "stalingrad" by Beevor, which I am finding to be inciteful as well, but it is more confined to the Southern Army Group, while Barbarossa covers the entire conflict in grreat detail. I would also suggest, as my namesake, "Panzer Leader" by Heinz Guderian. While not east-front specific, it is still an excellent book by one of the best generals of German Blitzkrieg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Try "A War Without Garlands" by Robert Kershaw. A very good read on Barbarossa with soldiers' letters from both sides but mostly German. Really reveals the "victoried to death" syndrome suffered by the Wehrmacht in Barbarossa, and just how close they came to annihilating the Soviets until the weather, high nco and officer attrition rates, supply problems, and the Soviet counter-offensive from behind Moscow with Siberian shock troops sent the tattered forces of Army Group Center into headlong retreat. I highly reccomend this book. It's a enjoyable read as well, not a dry history repeat narrative or simply statistics. -Tiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadepm Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 "Panzer Battles" by Von Mellenthin. It talks about battalion level tactics quite a bit. Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtball Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Try: 'Soviet Military Deception in the Second World War' by David Glantz. It's a facinating study really, of how the Red Army bettered the wehrmacht at it's own game. A welcome tonic to "Paul Carell" and von Mellinthin. Anthing by the man is an excellent cross-reference to the german accounts. Do a search on his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 I'm reading it now! , so far so good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 How about "Scorched Earth" and "Operation Barbarossa" both from Paul Carell, German perspective view of the Russian-German war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-00 Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Originally posted by Germanboy: Go for Glantz (Clash of Titans) to start with - very accessible and includes the archives opened in the early 1990s I enthusiastically second this choice. Be very careful with writers like von Mellenthin and Paul Carell. Clash of Titans balances the accounts of the aforementioned very well. It does an especially good job puncturing the enduring myth that the Red Army was tactically inept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted March 26, 2001 Author Share Posted March 26, 2001 Thanks to everyone that posted. I now have a veritable smorgasboard to choose from now! Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciks Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 How about "Scorched Earth" and "Operation Barbarossa" both from Paul Carell, German perspective view of the Russian-German war? I am reading "Unternehmen Barbarosa" right now and i find it really detailed and well written (though a bit out of date since it's quite old and many archive information has made available in the 90s). Anyway it shows great picture of Barbarosa from German perspective covering both strategy and tactics (actually more strategy stuff). I wil try to post some pictures and quotes (and maybe maps) some time later this week. EDIT: Anyone heard about "Seelowen" usage in early days of Barbarossa ? [This message has been edited by ciks (edited 03-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Originally posted by LongGrayLine: but if you want it from an individual soldier's perspective, I highly recommend "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer. A lot of this book is myth ... and their is a HUGE debate over it's validity, and has been classified as historical fiction. Some major web sites have developed around this topic, and we won't delve into the debate here. But, take it for what it is worth. I suggest "Red Army Tank Commanders." ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtball Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Re: Paul Carell author of 'Hitler Moves East' and 'Scorched Earth'. Paul Carell's real name is Dr. Paul Schmidt, who during WW2 was chief propaganda officer for the Nazi foreign office. Everything he writes must be taken with a grain or two of salt & must be cross-checked. Otherwise OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussar Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Osprey have a good book out called "Ostfront, Hitlers War on Russia 1941-5" by Charles Winchester. A new one (well, last year) with up to date facts by someone with no axe to grind. I found it a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazyel Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 What problems do people have with Panzer Battles (Von Mellinthin)? I have been searching for a balanced review of it and can't find any that mention discrepancies. I liked the book. I must say however, I can't fully judge his veracity, but I also can't doubt it. Hence this post. Also, what did you guys think of Panzer Commander (Von Luck)? Az Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin Cracauer Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Originally posted by azazyel: What problems do people have with Panzer Battles (Von Mellinthin)? What he says about the Russian tactics is in light of newer reserach underestimation. You should use a newer book for that. However, that is only a small part of his book and everybody buys it for the description of German tactics, so I see no real problem here. I have heard the opinion that his description of Herrman Balck's performance on the Chir river is overstated, but I wonder how anyone could judge over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin Cracauer Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Originally posted by azazyel: Also, what did you guys think of Panzer Commander (Von Luck)? Accidentially deleted that sentense from first post, sorry. Mellenthin's book is a lot deeper when it comes to operation descriptions. Mellenthin gives also a useful overview for a large part of the German/Soviet war, with excellent maps. In fact, I use the maps from his book most often when the timeframe/region is covered, more often than my general atlas, my WW2 atlas and the "overview" books like "the road..." and Glantz' book. Von Luck's book has a bit more info on specific vehicles/equipment and their usage, but overall there is much less to learn about military operations than from Mellenthin's book. From my impression, that is what both authors intended. Mellenthin wanted to give a useful learning book to educate western soliers how to handle the east block armies should it come to a NATO/Warshaw Pakt war. As I remember, there are near to no private words in the book. Von Luck wanted to write down his impressions, to let other get an idea what it was in the war. Apologies if I am wrong, a bit speculative to judge over the motives that way. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazyel Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Thanks for the reply. I would say that is a reasonable statement about Mellinthin. Von Luck too for that matter. I just got Panzerjager this weeknend past. I am looking forward to it as I enjoyed "The View from the Turret" alot. It is sort of broken and in need of re-editing, but it has good first person accounts none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnin' Ern Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 What about my personal favorite, "There Goes a Burning T-34" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machineman Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Another good book from the German generals viewpoint is 'The Other Side of the Hill', by Liddell Hart. Instead of one German commanders recollections and opinions there is a whole bunch of them, from Manstein to Manteuffel to Heinrici. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Anyone have any info on "Grenadiers" by Kurt Meyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtball Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 TIGER Re: 'Grenadiers' It's about to be republishied by J. J. Fedorowicz. Try: www.jjfpub.mb.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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