Is smoking a trail for the engineers gamey?

[YECoyote]

In "Valley of Trouble", I dropped a line of smoke from the 3 spotters, and ran the Engineers in the middle of it to the 75mm Bunker. Now, is this gamey? I lost 5 men, but the bunker was taken out easily.

[Clubfoot]

Gamey? Hell no! That's a clean kill if ever there was one.

[Bog]

Ah, I'd say that's gamey. Smokin' a line is definitely not what the rounds were used for historically.

Besides, I've always thought that smoke was done a bit abstractly in CM, and this is just taking advantage of this abstraction.

[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: Bog ]

[YECoyote]

I forgot to mention I ran right by their line of defense...all the way into their rear.

[Maxx]

I don't take it as gamey at all. You're paying for the smoke, use it however you like. The 81mm spotters for the allies have 200 ammo and cost 120 (vets).

I can never have enough smoke. I use just the technique you describe in tcp/ip battles to the consternation of my axis opponents I call it 'the shafted mushroom cloud' - and my vehicles with boys loaded onboard rush up the shaft and take cover in the cloud. It's so much more fun to meet his armor (as the allies) at 50-300m than at 1500m. Muha-muhahaha.

[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: Maxx ]

[Panzer_Meyer]

Hmmm,

I got to try that tactic, sound very effective. Best way to brake through the defense.

I'd say it's not gamey, why would it be, smoke is smoke. Smoke is designed to hinder spotting in the game and on the real battlefield. How is that make it gamey?

Good work though!

[lcm1947]

Not an expert but I don't see how that's gamey or much if any at all. I would assume they did that in real life? If they didn't shame on them for wasting life's.

[Otto Mekanik]

***Stupid Question Alert***

When YEcoyote says he uses his "spotters" does he mean Forward observers?

Which artillery FO have smoke? I wasn't aware of that?

[Dr. Brian]

According to the purist definition of "gamey" it is gamey. Because the way you used it was not the way it was used historically, dropping a line and having the squad run to the REAR past the defense is no better than the dreaded scouting jeeps or crew rush/scouts.

However, I being the "gamey" player that I am, SALUTE you for your excellent use of your units. I wish I would have thought of that! Great thinking!!!

[jgdpzr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Otto Mekanik:

***Stupid Question Alert***

When YEcoyote says he uses his "spotters" does he mean Forward observers?

Which artillery FO have smoke? I wasn't aware of that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mortar FOs are especially valuable for their smoke. IMO, that is one of the greatest assets of the 81mm mortar FO. I hate to use much heavier stuff than that because you are trading their killing power for smoke, whereas with mortars you are really looking at trading suppression for smoke. The only advantage with smoke from the heavier stuff is it seems to hang around longer, I think.

Most mortar FOs should be able to call in smoke. The heavier stuff may or may not, I think largely contingent upon the scenario designer. Not real sure about how it shakes out in QBs with the heavy stuff because I rarely consider using them for that.

And regarding this being gamey? Hell no, this is what smoke is for! Concealment, both when assualting and extricating.

[JunoReactor]

I think heavier guns create larger smoke screens per round but their duration does not differ.

And, not to be left out, CM is gamey.

[YECoyote]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JunoReactor:

I think heavier guns create larger smoke screens per round but their duration does not differ.

And, not to be left out, CM is gamey.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heavier guns from, what I can tell, does have a bigger smoke radius. Thus, you don't waste as much ammo to blind an area.

Otto, the Valley of Trouble scenarios, all FO's have smoke.

[Dunnee]

Ok, people say its "gamey" if you do it in the game and it wasn't done then. Well call me gamey cause I kick ass with the germans everytime and in the real war they lost brutally.

One proud "gamey" bastard, fresh for '01 you suckers.

[TigerChow]

This is my take on the use of smoke in that situation (actually - that is exactly how I played Valley of Trouble the first time I played it).

My initial impression is that no, it's not gamey. But after a little thought, here is what I came up with. I would only consider it gamey if it takes advantage of something that you could do in the game and not in real life. Now, I've never run through 100 yds. of thick smoke, but I can't imagine being able to see only 20ft. in front of me, running 100yds to my target, and not getting disoriented somehow. In other words, if it's a real thick smoke screen (no open spots to speak of to catch a glimpse of where you are going), then I would consider running more than 30 or 40 yds into it somewhat gamey, since the game doesn't give you any chance to get disoriented and come out on the wrong side of the smoke screen - missing your target altogether! (I probably wouldn't put up a fuss if someone did it to me, though). On the other hand, if it's not really dense and has openings (maybe the smoke mission only lasted a turn or so), then I wouldn't consider it gamey at all.

The other reason it could be considered gamey is because the defense could not 'area fire' into the smoke. Do to game limitations, you cannot area fire into a spot where you don't have LOS. I don't know if it happened in real life - but I would think if you were on the receiving end of the smoke and thought that someone was rushing at you through all that smoke, you might start spraying out the lead to slow them down. Of course, you might be concerned about hitting friendlies also...

Finally, a comment about my experiences with smoke: I have tried several other rushes through smoke screens - typically directly into houses or some other fortified position. In nearly all cases, I have gotten chewed up and spit back out. Probably because the smoke screen wasn't the thick kind, and as soon as my poor troops emerged, were blasted to smithereens.

My 2 cents.

TigerChow

[Moriarty]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Otto Mekanik:

***Stupid Question Alert***

When YEcoyote says he uses his "spotters" does he mean Forward observers?

Which artillery FO have smoke? I wasn't aware of that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Otto, basically its your choice whether you use your mortar FOs to fire smoke or HE. Your mortar FOs can use all their rounds as smoke if you want, but it isn't listed as such in the information window. The 81mm FOs are especially good for that with their relatively high loadout. Your gun FOs can lay big smoke for you, but I don't recall if you can use all or just a portion of their loadout for smoke. Your armor and onboard mortars have limited smoke capabilities.

[Moriarty]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by YECoyote:

In "Valley of Trouble", I dropped a line of smoke from the 3 spotters, and ran the Engineers in the middle of it to the 75mm Bunker. Now, is this gamey? I lost 5 men, but the bunker was taken out easily. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gamey is in the eye of the beholder. But, by telegraphing your move like that -- especially if you're heading for an obvious target -- don't be surprised when there's a heavy weapons platoon and a couple infantry platoons waiting to shred your engineers.

[Username]

did you drop willey peter or just old smokey?

[Dirtweasle]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username:

did you drop willey peter or just old smokey?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no WP in CM. I've seen some posts that have said that the "smoke" is / was equivalent to WP. I disagree, but that's a whole 'nother story.

[David Aitken]

I would call this gamey. The purpose of a smokescreen is to blind the enemy, not to conceal your own forces. On the battlefield, you drop smoke in front of the enemy in order to allow your troops to close the distance. Dropping smoke as a path for your troops to follow would not work in reality, because every unoccupied enemy gun would be blasting that path and annihilating anything moving through it.

One of the problems in CM is that the AI may catch a glimpse of your troops moving through the smokescreen, but won't do anything about it once they've disappeared again. In reality, a single glimpse would be enough to tell the enemy where your men are and where they're going, and everyone would have a good idea where to aim their weapons.

The AI in CM cannot function on intuition, and even a human player cannot control their troops' fire orders to that extent, so a smokescreen effectively becomes a wall of steel instead of a wall of vapour.