Who wins the foot race?

[REVS]

Down at the test track, I thought I'd put the Allied infantry through their paces in a two-turn sprint across flat open ground. Guess who won? Brit Airborne troops edged out the US Airborne troops by a yard or two. Slowest of the lot were standard British troops. Anyone else achieved the same results? Could it be that tea makes you go faster?

[Sergei]

Well, American paratroops eat too much chocolate so they are fat... and it's hard to sprint in those nylon stockings. But what is truly surprising, is that the Free French "patriots" didn't win. You'd expect that after seeing how they ran away in 1940.

[REVS]

Shameless self-plug here. No replies. What's the matter? Some infantry seem faster than others on the important first 2-turn sprint before tiredness sets in. How come the Airborne people are quicker over the ground? I've done this test three times over, and every time it's Brit Airbornes first, Yank Airbornes second, lots of miscellaneous Brits and Yanks in the pack in the middle, and the average British Solider last, a long way back. I like Brit Airborne boys in meeting engagement sprints for the flag even more these days. But why?

[abuhabib]

whoa Muhammad! weren't they deified by the germans as 'red devils'?

n if the xxx corps didn't sputter out at the last mile ...

[Gen-x87H]

I can not remember how many men are in a British Paratroop squad but they have less men than the American unit it could be an abstraction. Say if the brits have 9 men they could be in a more tight pattern at the end of the 2 turns than the american unit which I believe has 11 men.

Just a thought. Of course if they both have 11 men then it just has to be because the american troops want the Brits to get to the fight first for obvious reasons

Gen

[Kurtz]

Perhaps they run faster because they have lighter weapons? SMGs instead of rifles?

I think the German VG SMG squad are faster than the VG heavy SMG squad.

[Walker]

There is absolutely no difference in speed and endurance between the various Allied infantry types. They run at exactly the same speed and get 'tired' after precisely the same distance run. If there is a gap between the types after a 100 metre dash it's either because they often don't all start off dead on time, even when under the same company commander, or not all squads had the same terrain to run across. Strange, really, when you consider that paras were the fittest of the fit.

[REVS]

Walker, thanks for that, but what do you base that assertion on? I created some dead-flat ground, lined everybody up on exactly the same line, and gave them all orders simultaneously to run, not so much a distance, as two whole turns full bore. All units in CM show 'tired' after two turns (apart from PIATs, which show 'tired as soon as you look at them), which is why I ran the test this way. Seeing as how meeting engagements are a genuine 50:50 point balance type of game, and how rushing to the flag seems such a sensible tactic in 8 out of 10 small-size meeting engagements, I was interested in the evidence for the obvious discrepancy in the game system. I'm happy to play Paras because they perform well and they're good soldiers. However, we seem to get so many endless threads on this forum about the relative performance of machines, guns and other non-human elements, I'm interested also in why no-one seems very interested in the way the game system models human performance.

[deanco]

I'm interested also in why no-one seems very interested in the way the game system models human performance.

--------------------

Ummm, probably everyone is in a mad dash to access the search function so they can show you the previous 150 threads on this subject. Or maybe it's because there have been NO previous threads on this topic and, as a result, a certain percentage of the board regulars are unsure as to what to do next.

I asked for BTS to release some of the "numbers" (statistics) used in this game a while ago, but I believe they prefer to keep the whole thing under wraps. Hey, it's their game.

I too would be interested in seeing the difference in speed between running uphill and downhill, and through varying terrains. Knowing that a unit runs 30% slower (or whatever) through dense woods than across open terrain would definately help those folks that like to spend a long time on their turns. I personally don't like playing like that but I think some of the more serious players would find these figures interesting. Or, one would hope so...

[The Codfather]

Were there any command bonuses? If the Brit Airbornes had a HQ with a bonus, they would have a false start by 7 seconds...

[Walker]

Here are the results of the latest infantry speed/endurance test:

(Test run 5 x over flat clear ground. All British and US Rifle/Para/Glider types participated with 1 Veteran and 1 Elite squad each. All squads commanded by the same one-star company commander.)

Units remain in formation after starting off, i.e. no squad gains or loses any ground whatsoever. Elite squads are quicker off the mark.

All units go from Ready to Tired after 85-90 secs running flat out. Still in same formation as after starting off.

Veteran units go from Tired to Weary after 140-145 secs, from which time on they stagger along slowly.

Elite units go from Tired to Weary after 150-155 secs, from which time on they stagger along slowly.

All units go from Weary back to Tired the instant they stop.

All Elite units go from Tired to Ready in 70-75 secs stopped.

All Veteran Units go from Tired to Ready in 80-85 secs stopped.

All Elite units go from Ready to Rested in 90 secs.

All Veteran units go from Ready to Rested in 105 seconds.

After 180 secs all the Veteran squads have travelled 550 metres, all the Elite squads 585 metres.

After 300 seconds in continuous run mode all the US Veteran and Elite squads had gone from Weary to Half Dead.

After 240 seconds in continuous run mode all the British Veteran and Elite squads had stopped to brew up a nice pot of tea. If you zoom in real close you can see them filling their tin mugs. Nice touch BTS!

I suppose this means that if you want to get to those flags quicker and have fitter units when you get there you have to buy higher quality troops. Not that the notorious Headlong Rush To The Flags is always the best way to start off a battle.

And no, I’m not going to do the test for all the German infantry types. Not today, anyway.

This Instant Graemlin is supposed to be a couple of paras further up.

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Walker ]

[Trooper]

It's "Waho", not "Whoa"

And no, I've no clue where it came from.

NTM

(Member of the Association of British Military Parachutists, whose newsletter is 'Waho Mohammed'. Hmm.. which reminds me, my dues are due)

[REVS]

Thanks to Walker and Ace in particular for pointing out the error of my ways. At least the issue is explained thoroughly, and I can rush headlong to my flag feeling I have an equal chance of getting there with all my competing foes!

[Walker]

Revs, it occurs to me that running flat out all the way to the flags may not always be the best way to go. As I’m sure you do too, for longer distances I usually choose an interval system with alternating run/move phases. The idea is of course to get where you’re going to in reasonably good fighting trim. I’ve often wondered whether to use very long running and short walking phases, equal run/move phases or what. So I ran a test to find these things out:

Test setup: Br Paras Vet/Crack/Elite; flat clear dry ground.

Intervals measured with LOS tool. Pretty accurate.

25/25 = 25 metres run, 25 metres walk, 25 metres run …

75/25 = 75 metres run, 25 metres walk, 75 metres run…

200m 400m 600m 800m

25/25 90-95s 185s* 275s 370s

50/50 90-95s 185s* 275s 370s

50/25 80-85s 160s* 240s 335s

75/25 75-80s 150s* 220s 335s

‘Tired’ after ‘Weary’ after

25/25 255s/575m no

50/50 245s/550m no

50/25 160s/400m 275s/730m

75/25 130s/375m 230s/620m

s = seconds, m = metres

* for Elite units; Veterans +10s; Crack in between.

A unit can run 85-90 seconds (approx. 290 metres) flat out before getting ‘Tired’.

A unit can run 130-135 seconds (approx. 470 metres) flat out before getting ‘Weary’.

(over flat clear dry ground)

Distance between slowest/fastest squads:

After 120s 80m between Vet 25/25 and Elite 75/25

After 240s 130m between Vet 25/25 and Elite 75/25

After 300s 100m between Vet 25/25 and Elite 50/25

The gap between the slower (25/25//50/50) and faster (75/25//50/25) squads closed significantly once the faster units went to ‘Weary’ and started staggering along.

A unit goes from ‘Weary’ to ‘Tired’ the instant it stops.

As an interesting side observation, it would seem that higher unit quality means shorter recovery times. In above test, there was a 15 second gap between Elite/Crack/Veteran squads. In other words, Elite units went from ‘Tired’ to ‘Ready’ something like 30 seconds sooner than the Veterans.

How the !+*? do you get a nicely spaced table posted?? Everything looked perfect in Word, and even replacing tabs with spaces doesn't seem to help...

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: Walker ]

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: Walker ]

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deanco:

Ummm, probably everyone is in a mad dash to access the search function so they can show you the previous 150 threads on this subject. Or maybe it's because there have been NO previous threads on this topic and, as a result, a certain percentage of the board regulars are unsure as to what to do next.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look forward to the fitness rating in CMBB? Just a thought.