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OK, I've got the demo.

I'm pretty close to buying it. Only one thing holds me back.

I totallly suck at this game! frown.gif

I have yet to win Close Encounter once. Yesterday, my victory % was up to 83 percent by turn 7, by Turn 14 it was 49%.

Can someone give me some tips?

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pierce:

OK, I've got the demo.

I'm pretty close to buying it. Only one thing holds me back.

I totallly suck at this game! frown.gif

I have yet to win Close Encounter once. Yesterday, my victory % was up to 83 percent by turn 7, by Turn 14 it was 49%.

Can someone give me some tips?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Don't pay attention to the percentages. They are like guesses. Just play your game.

2. You will get better over time.

3. The real game is a thousand times better than the demo. I would encourage you to buy it immediately if not sooner.

4. If you have specific questions, you can post them and the people on this board will gladly help you out. *really*

------------------

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

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Think of it this way - if you were really good, the game wouldn't be much of a challenge. In war easy wins are valued more.

I really sucked when I started playing and got my ass routinely handed to me by the AI. Now, that happens less often.

But its been months and months of learning and figuring stuff out and asking lots of questions, which has been great fun. Except when I get called a gamey cheating bastard. (Just kidding, that hasn't happened. Yet.)

I still have tons to learn, but I feel like im getting much much better.

The greatest part of this game is figuring out how something should be used or should have gone in real life, and then trying it in the game to find that, in fact, it does work that way.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pierce:

OK, I've got the demo.

I'm pretty close to buying it. Only one thing holds me back.

I totallly suck at this game! frown.gif

I have yet to win Close Encounter once. Yesterday, my victory % was up to 83 percent by turn 7, by Turn 14 it was 49%.

Can someone give me some tips?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been playing CM now for a YEAR (since the Beta Demo) and I still get beat by the AI. It's because the AI is just that good and that war in itself is a very fluid situation which not only depends on the quality of troops, quality of tactics, but also, on a LOT of luck. You can have the very best laid out plan and it can even come together, but a few unlucky events can ruin your day (battle) at anytime. So hang in there and have patience with it. There's always that ALT-A combo (Abort Mission) wink.gif

------------------

"Live by the sword, live a good LOOONG life!"--Minsc, BGII

"Boo points, I punch."--Minsc, BGII

"Buttkicking for goodness!"--Minsc, BGII

"Aim small, miss small."--Mel Gibson, The Patriot.

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OK, here are some specific questions.

1. Do the flags matter? One thing that REALLY annoys me is having to leave people to guard the flag on the hill behind the church to keep it from reverting to ?.

2. Ok, how do I use my tanks more effectively? I have 5 Shermans to the 3 Stugs, but even though generally the Stugs show up one at a time, I still seem to lose 1-2 Shermans in the exchange. Do Stugs just kick butt? Or am I not concentrating my firepower effectively? How would you do it? Ex: last time I rushed my 3 Shermans to the position between the woods on the left and the church. In theory, they should have been able to devastate the Stugs as they came up, 3-1. Instead, I lost 1-2 Shermans each exchange...

(BTW, the true 3D aspect of this game does kick butt, but I've noticed that "Camera-1" can sometimes see things that the object claims aren't in its LOS. You shouldn't need to see the bottom of the tank to shoot at it...)

3. What do you have to do to get the guys riding on the tanks to get off? I've given them directions and watched them ride into fire zones, then they get shot at and paniced. Well, duh! I've tried "pausing" the tank, but the only thing that seems to work is stopping the tank for a minute. Huh, maybe that's the plan. (A minute seems really long in combat.)

4. Reading other posts, I'm supposed to "support" the tanks with infantry. Ok, how do I do that? If they are near the tanks, they get creamed since everyone shoots at the tanks. If they aren't near the tanks, they usually shoot at something else.

5. Hints on using the bazooka, and mortar units effectively? The bazookas seem to suck at taking out tanks, for one thing, if they're close enough to hit the tank, they get killed by it. Best use I've made of them so far is shooting at MG nests...

The Mortar units can't shoot at anything close, and can't shoot at things they can't see?

6. Tips on fighting in the woods? I keep getting creamed when I get people in the woods. If I get a platoon to the flag in the big woods, then I want them to dig-in and set up some sort of defenses.

Pierce

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Here are oversimplified answers to complex questions smile.gif

1) Flags matter, as far as your final victory points, but the main thing should always be control of vital terrain that offers you an advantage because of height, cover, denying enemy access to an area, etc.

2) The Shermans in that scenario (and Shermans in general) are better at infantry support than engaging German armor. You're right to mass the Shermans, but try to flank the StuG's and/or get them in a cross-fire. Not only is the side armor weaker than the front, but the StuG's lack turrets and have to rotate in place to aim the guns. Your Shermans are also faster, though that scenario has damp ground conditions, which can cause bogging.

3) Realistically, you usually have to stop the tanks (cancel movement orders) for a turn while.

4) Supporting the tanks with infantry basically means scouting ahead with infantry into covered areas to prevent ambushes from Panzerschrecks or other anti-tank weapons. The tanks support the infantry with their massive firepower.

5) Bazookas can be very effective, but only from relatively short range, preferably against side or rear armor. They work best defensively, hidden in ambushes. Their ammo does little if any damage to infantry.

Mortars are best used to suppress the enemy (keep them from firing while you wipe them out). Keep them back as far as possible while still having LOS, and then try using the "area target" command. They can fire at things they can't see if they're in the command radius of an HQ unit; they can then area fire at what that unit sees. That way you can keep your mortars back in the woods a bit, for instance.

6) Woods are always nasty. Prep the area with artillery fire if you know the enemy is there. Keep tanks far enough away from the woodline to avoid anti-tank weapons, but within range and LOS to fire HE rounds into the woodline, should any troops show up there. Enter the area carefully in multiple wedge formations, so you don't accidentally walk right by an enemy squad and can quickly reinforce the squads that do contact the enemy.

------------------

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.

--Eisenhower

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Maximus Makes a good point..

I too have been playing for over a year, I like to think I can beat the AI most of the time.

BUT it is DAMN Good AI and if it gets lucky, it can really kick your butt.

Can anyone who reads this forum claim that they can (in a QB with computer selected forces) beat the AI at least nine times out of ten? I can't.

I figure I win more than I loose to the AI, but it is still challeging and it can be actually downright sneaky and out smart you at times. And it really like lots of smoke.

Just because the AI beats you is NO reason not to buy the game.

Good reasons not to buy the game include, the CM Addiction that will suck the rest of your life away and the cost of divorce lawyers if your married. IF you buy this game you are sure to enjoy it so much you will be addicted to it.

It will however save you money in that you won't want to spend money on any other games, because none out there right now are as good as CM!

Good luck

-tom w

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pierce:

OK, here are some specific questions.

1. Do the flags matter? One thing that REALLY annoys me is having to leave people to guard the flag on the hill behind the church to keep it from reverting to ?.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do, if you care about the final score, as they score points for you. Note that you have to actually have units around them at the end to get the points, not to have been the last to occupy them.

What I would suggest though is to forget the flags and to start thinking about the terrain instead. If you occupy the right terrain and have a sound strategy, you will destroy your opponent and thus get all the flags. Usually though, flags and strategic terrain go hand in hand.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

2. Ok, how do I use my tanks more effectively? I have 5 Shermans to the 3 Stugs, but even though generally the Stugs show up one at a time, I still seem to lose 1-2 Shermans in the exchange. Do Stugs just kick butt? Or am I not concentrating my firepower effectively? How would you do it? Ex: last time I rushed my 3 Shermans to the position between the woods on the left and the church. In theory, they should have been able to devastate the Stugs as they came up, 3-1. Instead, I lost 1-2 Shermans each exchange...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Concentration of tank force is a good thing, but many other things affect the outcome: Luck, good positioning, crew experience, vehicle statistics etc. Not sure I can help, but search the board for "tank tactics"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

(BTW, the true 3D aspect of this game does kick butt, but I've noticed that "Camera-1" can sometimes see things that the object claims aren't in its LOS. You shouldn't need to see the bottom of the tank to shoot at it...)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The graphics are an abstract representation of the underlying engine. Things are not always what they seem, because of limitations of the display system, but it poses no problem after a while.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

3. What do you have to do to get the guys riding on the tanks to get off? I've given them directions and watched them ride into fire zones, then they get shot at and paniced. Well, duh! I've tried "pausing" the tank, but the only thing that seems to work is stopping the tank for a minute. Huh, maybe that's the plan. (A minute seems really long in combat.)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pausing for a minute is a good tactic if you have the time. Give the troops orders to disembark, and pause the tank for at least as long as the estimated command delay is for the disembarkation.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

4. Reading other posts, I'm supposed to "support" the tanks with infantry. Ok, how do I do that? If they are near the tanks, they get creamed since everyone shoots at the tanks. If they aren't near the tanks, they usually shoot at something else.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In closed terrain, infantry scouts before tanks to flush out AT guns and infantry, and tanks provide support fire. Tanks are safer at least 200y behind infantry, as bazookas can't get to them there. Supporting the tanks with infantry does not mean necessarily that infantry will kill the enemy units that threaten the tanks, but that will flush them out for the tanks to kill.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

5. Hints on using the bazooka, and mortar units effectively? The bazookas seem to suck at taking out tanks, for one thing, if they're close enough to hit the tank, they get killed by it. Best use I've made of them so far is shooting at MG nests... The Mortar units can't shoot at anything close, and can't shoot at things they can't see?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Keep the zooks hidden, in ambush. If you need to move them, sneak or move behind cover. They are usually effective under 100y.

Mortars are support weapons. They have a minimum range, and although they can fire directly, it's better to use a HQ in command to spot with them so that they don't get spotted themselves.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

6. Tips on fighting in the woods? I keep getting creamed when I get people in the woods. If I get a platoon to the flag in the big woods, then I want them to dig-in and set up some sort of defenses.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Infantry cannot dig in during the game. They will set a defence where you put them, which is usually very effective in the woods. If you get creamed by mortar, try to not occupy obvious ground, i.e. the flag. If you get creamed by infantry, either mortar them before you occupy the ground, or overwhelm them with more troops than what they have. And always, always, keep your squads in command and in support of each other.

Hope it helps.

------------------

My squads are regular, must be the fibre in the musli...

[This message has been edited by coralsaw (edited 01-19-2001).]

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Wow!

What great responses, and so quickly.

Ok, I just bought the real version.

I haven't "won" Chance Encounter yet, but you all have convinced me that I should buy it anyway.I guess I have a week to play CE and the other scenario until my real copy gets here anyways...

Hint to BTS: Write up a short description of each unit, and their strength and weaknesses. It doesn't have to be super detailed, but knowing that Stugs are heavily armored in the front, and best attacked from the flank is useful info... Include that in the demo!

I've read all the Stephen Ambrose books, but I'm not a wargame buff so I knew enough to fight german armor 2-1, but I didn't know to flank them as well...

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Pierce,

Follow this link to get spreadsheets on the units: http://w1.312.telia.com/~u31213280/index.htm

This is a site that has conversions of ASL (Advanced Squad Leader) scenarios. The unit database is very handy.

The best way to learn is just to play. This game does a fantastic job demonstrating the complexities of combat, so don't expect to master it overnight. Also, playing against a human (either email or TCP/IP) will accelerate the learning curve. Many experienced players will gladly play a game with you and give you pointers after the battle. I also recommend going to the CM HQ site and read some of the AARs (After Action Reports) posted there. They are a goldmine of information that provide valuable insight into the tactical thinking of some experienced and highly skilled players.

Not being a wargame buff is less of a constraint with this game than many wargames. This is simply because most wargames involve mastery of the system, or the game engine itself, as much as the honing of valid, real-life tactical skills. Combat Mission is a huge step forward in that it allows you to apply real tactical skill to an unprecedented degree.

A word of warning: If you keep posting here, eventually you will be assimilated by the CM Borg and there will be no return from such a fate. I know, you probably haven't the foggiest idea of what I am talking about, but you'll find out soon enough.

Have fun and count those days until that small, non-descript little envelope arrives.

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Guest Mr. Johnson-<THC>-

I'm very glad you got the game Pierce. Don't worry so much about the demo, it is good pratice though. Lots of CM game engine have changed since then. Your allied MGunners will do more damage and suppression. And that map does not allow you to flank those Stugs easily. Oh yeah check out this website. It does not have all of the units in the game explaned just yet, but it will. www.combatmissions.co.uk/

BTS has more important things to do then tell us the best ways to use a certain weapon. Thats for you to buy the game and stay up all night testing it out for a month.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Forever Babra:

The first time I loaded up the "Reisberg" beta demo scenario, over a year ago, and got my ass handed to me within ten turns, I knew I'd be buying this game...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It took you 10 turns? My butt was served to me in about 6 if I remember correctly smile.gif

Pierce,

If you think playing the AI is bad wait until you start playing other(and I use the term loosely) humans. Enjoy

------------------

When one goes tear-assing around, one often ends up with a torn ass.

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A friend gave me some help I thought I'd pass along:

I'm ccing this to John Josephson as he needs to get into this game too. :)

So I've been playing the demo awhile.

Boy do I suck at it.

Any hints on playing Chance Encounter?

They key is to use the actual tactics that the army uses as this is a simulation of world war II comabt (the best every made for non military use). More on such tactics below.

Also, in Chance Encounter, you want to play as the Allies first. They actually have a nice advantage in that particular scenario (making it great fun to later play with the axis and totally crush the allies :) ).

Last night my "Victory" was up to 83, but it fell down to 49 eventually.

And my morale steadily decreases...

"Victory" is your estimation of how well you're doing based on forces and control of flags. If a flag appears uncontrolled (like the one in the woods, even though there are Germans all around it) your "victory" estimation will calculate as if that flag were neutral (and when the game ends and the Germans are seen to, yes, have that flag (was there any doubt?), the actual victory calculation will be different than your estimate).

Morale is basically a measure of how much of your force is left. 73% percent morale means 27% percent of your guys are dead. (Basically -- splitting squads also reduced morale -- so you should only do that in specific, rare circumstances).

Anyway, how to play:

First off, know your units:

To see how much damage a unit deals out at different ranges, click on the unit and press return. There is a little chart for different ranges. You will learn that, just like in real life:

Infantry is a very powerful short range weapon. In close, nothing gives you the bang for the buck like infantry (in very close they can even use their grenades and squad level anti-tank stuff so can even knock out tanks up close).

Machine guns are a medium range weapon. The attenuation of damage over range is much less than with infantry. They also move slowly. Both great reasons to keep them farther away set up with interlocking zones of fire where whenever the enemy makes a break over open ground they will get chewed up by your machine guns. Your 50 caliber machine gun is a special case. Invented in world war I and still used today (how many other weapons can we say that about??), it was originally invented as an anti-vehicle weapon. Still works. Any soft target gets chewed to heck by a 50 cal machine gun (it goes through about 20mm of armor at 0 degrees slope). Doesn't matter much in chance encounter (the stugs you face have thicker armor than that I believe), but it's handy to know later when you're knocking out half tracks with the 50 cal.

Tanks are a total blast -- and are the most often misused unit. Your sherman tanks are designed to be used against infantry (in comparison with the axis tanks you face which are generally designed to be used against tanks). Each sherman has 3 machine guns and a main gun. The key to tanks is: they're a long range weapon. Everybody loves to drive them in close and menace the infantry saying "nya nya nya, I'm in a tank!". That's totally the wrong thing to do. That leads to dead tanks. Tanks can sit a kilometer away and pound infantry senseless leaving the infantry totally unable to do anything. If you're more than 200 meters away, you're immune to the anti-tank teams (panzercrieks for the Germans). This is a good thing. Park your tanks far from infantry but where they have line of sight and pound the enemy senseless. You will then start to understand why tanks or so fearsome! (and *truly* be able to say "nya nya nya!")

So use each unit from it's proper range for best effect.

Understand command:

Your squads work better, break less, and respond faster when in command of the leaders. Check out the manual on that. Basically, keep the three squad guys with their leader guy. Red line to leader means in command, black means of of command. See simple article referenced below for more details.

Targets: You don't have to give every unit a target. Units will select their own targets just fine. You give them targets when you want them to concentrate on a particular guy they may not be shooting at due to a plan you have, or because they didn't pick up on who you want them to shoot at (the guy that just ran out in the open is a good guy to shoot at!)

Next, use your units together:

As the army manuals say: Tanks must protect the infantry, and infantry must protect the tanks. In general, infantry should go ahead of the tanks and sweep out any place where naughty infantry are hiding that might kill a tank. The tank can guard them from behind while they do it (as tanks are a long range weapon) and then move up safely to a new position once the infantry have checked that it's safe. This is good for the tanks as they are protected from short range threats. It's good for the infantry because anything the tanks can see (like something that pops out to shoot at the infantry) the tanks can pound senseless.

Know the terrain:

use the line of sight tool all the time. blue means you can see something, black means not (and orange up to the black will show how far you can see up to where it turns black).

to see how things look from a place where you don't have guys, control click on the terrain (to center there), then use camera view 1 to look around at what you can see. What you can see is the line of sight. Very important in this game.

Turn off the trees with shift T. They are just decoration. It's the underlying terrain that counts for the game. Click on the "hotkeys" button in the lower left to see all the other controls.

Realize the different levels of protection from the different terrains:

Heavy buildings are twice as good as light to hide in, woods twice as good as scattered trees. Yes you can hide behind walls. Use terrain for cover! It is vital and total death results from ignoring this one. :)

Know about movement:

Infantry should run fast when under fire, move normal when not, sneak though woods when approaching enemy contact, crawl when trying to get out of harms way and avoid fire (or run -- depending on the situation).

Tanks should "hunt" when moving forward towards the enemy (hunt means go forward at half speed and stop to shoot at any enemy you see). Tanks can reverse if you want to keep your good armor pointed forward. (to see the armor on the tank on each side, click on the unit and hit return). Don't send tanks running through scattered trees in wet conditions or you risk getting bogged or throwing a track.

Tanks hit *much* better when not moving. Therefore, park your tanks where they can see the enemy and let the enemy tanks come to you, not you to the enemy tanks. Later on you'll need to use fast maneuver with allied tanks (the only way to stay alive against powerful axis tanks), but that's not needed in chance encounter, and for starters, it's good to know that stationary is by far the easiest state to hit something from.

Know the controls:

Use shift C to change your unit sizes to make things easier to see (I like size 3 for normal use, but 4 and 1 are also often handy).

shift T to turn off the trees

make sure you have smoke turned on as it affects line of sight and can be confusing if off.

There's a lot more to the game. Ambushes, how to use artillery, how to use your motors without getting them shot, how to use bazookas best, etc. But this is a good start.

Some articles online that will give more detailed help on how to play:

An easy article (with pictures!) on using leaders in the game:

http://combathq.thegamers.net/articles/HQ/hq.asp

A medium article (also with pictures!) on using infantry:

http://combathq.thegamers.net/articles/inftac/inftac.asp

A medium/dense article on using tanks:

http://combathq.thegamers.net/articles/move_to_contact/move_to_contact.asp

For the strong of heart, a dense article written by an actual army trained guy on infantry on the attack:

http://combathq.thegamers.net/articles/infatac/inatac.asp

And there are plenty more articles on this website. Even a cartoon illustrated reprint of a WWII german army tank pamphlet (translated) on how to use your tank and such. :)

Have fun. Ask any questions that come to mind. The CM community is here to help! :)

Glenn

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Why I think I should be able to trounce the AI:

1. I know EXACTLY what the Axis is going to do, because they do it each time. They send a bunch of people into the woods on the left, and some people into the woods on the right to try to get the high ground in the church.

2. The Allies seem to have an advantage.

Anyways, we'll see tonight if I everyone's advice has helped.

Pierce

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Pierce, regarding info on the units, I've started writing a series of guides about them and their uses, intended for newer players. The first one should be posted soon. The URL will be posted in this forum then.

------------------

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.

--Eisenhower

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Pierce,

When playing that scenario against the AI, here's a tip:

Tell your Shermans to rush down that road as fast as they can, and position them in a line between the Church and the hill, or just behind the crest of that hill. Then wait for the StuGs to come to you, don't rush and shoot at the same time.

You can start with some infantry perched on the tanks, they can jump off and try to hold the Church before the Germans get to it. From the church you will have a better idea where the StuGs will be.

The trick is -- multiple tanks firing at the same target is like having a higher rate of fire. Let him come to you, blast him in unison as he pops up one StuG at a time.

(Ahem hopefully this will work...)

There are also threads about that scenario, do a search in this forum, and in the scenario forum.

[This message has been edited by patboivin (edited 01-19-2001).]

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Two thoughts from a relative newbie struggling to get better:

(1) I tried Chance Encounter in hot seat mode a few times. That gave me a sense of how each side viewed the actions of the other. The shift in point of view was helpful to understanding concealment, LOS and the effects of fire.

(2) The AI is devilish good in exploiting LOS. I've seen it use LOS in armor vs. armor situations to isolate a particular tank and pick it off from a position to which the tank's friends have no LOS. It's much better than I am at this. One antidote -- always deploy armor in pairs, close together, so that at least two vehicles have a shot at any attacker.

------------------

Also los, Augen zu, und hinein!

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pierce:

OK, I've got the demo.

I'm pretty close to buying it. Only one thing holds me back.

I totallly suck at this game! frown.gif

I have yet to win Close Encounter once. Yesterday, my victory % was up to 83 percent by turn 7, by Turn 14 it was 49%.

Can someone give me some tips?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've had the game for a few months, and despite a heavy school/workload I've played quite a few scenarios and operations, and I am really just not very good. BUT, I love the game, it is very challenging, and quite satisfying to see improvement. I'm looking forward to starting a new job soon, and having enough free time to get my a** whipped in TCP/IP.

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First off, a neat thing about the game is that the least exoerienced person can sometimes trounce the best just by the way the dice fall. I had a Tiger brewed in a village, its ass was sticking out from its hiding place and an M4A3 vanilla caught it. The person I was playing was green, making mistakes, but when he took my Tiger my line of defense collapsed, totally unexpected.

The real trick is play other humans and get your butt kicked some, then ask the person you played how they kicked your butt.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Can anyone who reads this forum claim that they can (in a QB with computer selected forces) beat the AI at least nine times out of ten? I can't.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nine times out of ten? Without experience

bonus, that's not too hard.

regards,

--Rett

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