Really dumb question

[ragnaar15]

OK here goes:

What was the Waffen SS? I have heard references that sounded like the Waffen SS was a seperate branch within the normal SS. Specifically I remember a snippet from A Bridge Too Far where some of the regular SS soldiers mention their dislike when attacking with the Waffen SS, because they were so fanatical and would not retreat.

However, other references I have heard make it seem like the Waffen SS was the entire SS, just a more formal name for it or something. Specifically, when choosing units in CM you can only choose Waffen SS.

So are the two different or just one in the same. Also, what does the word Waffen mean in German. Seems close the waffe, which is weapon I believe.

[Pzman]

Waffen SS=Fighting SS. It was a diffrent branch of the SS.

[Moriarty]

Not a dumb question, a logical one.

The very simplified answer is that the Schutzstaffel (SS) was the security force loyal to Adolf Hitler.

The Waffen SS (and you are correct in your translation as Weapon SS), in its most basic form, comprised infantry and armored military units.

The issues of their relative fanatacism, superior training or not, superior ability or not and participation in war crimes have been the subject of long, sometimes rancorous debate, which I will leave to grogdom.

edited to drive Andreas crazy.

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Moriarty ]</p>

[JasonC]

In case the distinction others have already correctly made is not clear, the SS was a whole organizational empire within Germany and occupied Europe. It did not just include combat forces, but police units, administrative and political units, the guys running the prison camps, researchers, race theory propagandists, and even whole industries, etc. The "armed" SS (the most common translation) were those members of the whole organization who fought as soldiers; it distinguished them from the police and such.

[offtaskagain]

There were three branches of the SS. There was the Totenkopf (Death's Head) branch. These guys were the exceptionally bad ones. They are responsible for the round up of "undesireables" behind the linesand sending them to their fate, as well as battling partisans. They also guarded concentration camps. The Allegemeine branch was the administrative branch. I'm not too certain as to it's functions, but I believe these are the A-holes who were in charge of the ghettos. The Waffen-SS as already mentioned were the front line combat units.

[Moon]

What is important to add, though, is that the Waffen-SS has undergone some fundamental changes as the war progressed, mainly from something which some would call an elite unit (you had to fulfill certain arian requirements to enter) to a conscript formation, where "Volksdeutsche" (foreigners more or less willing to fight for the germans, really) were able to enter. So a Waffen-SS unit towards 1945 might consist of more polish, ukrainian, hungarian personell than Germans. Most of the officers and NCO's stayed German, though, for obvious reasons...

[Michael Emrys]

I thought the foreign troops in the Waffen SS were organised into their own seperate divisions, although I suppose there might have been a sprinkling of German officers and NCOs to keep them in line. What I have read about these divisions suggests that their fighting power was considerably less than the all-German divisions.

Michael

[Iron Chef Sakai]

the waffen ss weree best trained fighting force of the war, any other ss that does not have waffen in front of it were scumbags, and yes late war ss actualy had if you can beleive this, muslims from the balkans, since there was a huge lack or man power by 44 in germany do to the huge battle fo attrition is had gotten itself into with the soviet union for years.

[Captain Wacky]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael emrys:

I thought the foreign troops in the Waffen SS were organised into their own seperate divisions, although I suppose there might have been a sprinkling of German officers and NCOs to keep them in line. What I have read about these divisions suggests that their fighting power was considerably less than the all-German divisions.

Michael<hr></blockquote>

I thought so too. I remember reading about the Dutch SS a lot in A Bridge Too Far. If I'm not mistaken most of the foreign SS units were from Northern European countries, the countries which Germany felt a kinship with; although they were not German, they were "germanic, ie Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc"

[Iron Chef Sakai]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

I thought so too. I remember reading about the Dutch SS a lot in A Bridge Too Far. If I'm not mistaken most of the foreign SS units were from Northern European countries, the countries which Germany felt a kinship with; although they were not German, they were "germanic, ie Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc"<hr></blockquote>

hehe, no the funny thing is how fast their superiority complexed changed once they were running low on man power. Himmler actualy liked the balkan muslims in the ss because of thier willingness to give up their own life for basicly himmler when it comes down to it. i'm still amazed that germany was still even able to fight a tough fight thru 44. some historian was quoted as saying the germans had the most sophisticated and best trained army in the war, it's just ashame they were fighting for a bad cause or something like that

[Stoffel]

SS divisions in the Arnhem area had no Dutch units

All these dutch were volunteers many had no feelings for the Nazi party though.

Most of them thought when they volunteered that the war was a lost cause for the allies and that this was a good way to defend there countries against communisme.

good work from the german propoganda

there were two divisions Horst Wessel(18th)and Nederland (23rd) both were panzergrenadier divisions

they fought together with the Belgium SS forces and were among the decorated units

I will not debate the so called seperate branches

which will end up in a flamewar but I can say you need to find and read a copy of Charles Sydnor's

Soldiers of Destruction

This is a very good work on the SS and in special on the units from which the entire organisation grew,the Deaths Head unit or SSTK

this book systematically deals with all myths and has many facts that will give you a different look on the SS

soldiers of destruction by Charles C Sydnor

ISBN 0-691-05255-7

published by princeton University Press