Spanish Bombs Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 You chaps forgot the KV-85 ... Wasnt that one pretty rare? As I recall (OK, so its largely from the Panzer Commander game pamphlet) there were only a few of those creatures. The KV-1S was more common, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Quick question for Spanish Bombs: Clash fan? But seriously - IMO I'm not worrying that too few AFVs will be modelled. If KwazyDog is already working on the IS2 (as he alluded to on another thread) I'm assuming that BTS has a fairly large list of vehicles to include in CM2. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Originally posted by Space Thing: Let it be said here first. "BTS, you have no deadline. Please do it all and do it right, however long it takes." I humbly thank you ahead of time. I am sure they will gladly take you up on your offer of an interest-free credit line that they will need to live off themselves, and pay Matt and Dan, while they produce CM2 including every last vehicle that saw combat on the 'notnamedforfearofupsettingPCpeople' Front. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Reily Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 According to Avalon Hill the following AFVs fought on the Eastern Front: Russian:RF=Rarity Factor RF T37a 1.3 SU100y 1.5 T50 1.5 SU14 Br T40 1.3 (m35) 1.5 T40a 1.3 SU45 1.4 T60 1.0 SU57 1.3 T60a 1.0 SU76 1.0 T70 1.1 Su76m 1.1 T26s .9 SU122 1.4 SU122 1.4 SU152 1.1 T26s SU122 1.5 OT-133 Flam 1.3 SU85 1.3 BT5 1.3 SU100 1.3 Bt5a 1.4 JSU122 1.3 Bt7-2 1.2 JSU152 1.3 BT7a 1.4 BA32-1(AC)37mm 1.4 BT7m 1.1 BA32-1 45mm 1.4 T34a 1.1 M5a (ht)1.4 T34b 1.0 M5b 1.3 T34/ATO-41 1.2 M5c 1.3 T34c .9 M5d 1.5 T43 1.5 SU37(AASP) 1.3 T34/85 1.1 SU37-2 1.5 T35-2 1.5 GAZ67b 1.2 T28 1.3 Zis 1.1 T28c 1.3 JAG 1.4 KV1 1.3 Zis(a) 1.3 (aatr) KV1a 1.0 Zis( 1.4 KV1c 1.0 Zis© 1.3 KVIIa 1.4 Zis(d) 1.3 KV8 1.4 Zis(e) 1.4 KV85 1.4 Zis(f)(m8) 1.2 JS1(85mm gun) 1.2 Zis(g)(m13)1.3 JS1(100) 1.4 Zis(h)(m31) 1.3 JSII 1.2 JSII(pike) 1.5 This is from the Amour listing in the rule book from the Squad Leader Gamette Cross of Iron. I wil post the Germans Later tonite. Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Reily Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 My first post got messed up when i submitted it . The rf for the left hand list is between the lists,the rf for the right list is to the right of that list. The German afvs are as follows: German:RF Pz1b 1.1 PzIId 1.0 PzIId(flam) 1.4 PzIIf 1.2 PzII 1.4 "Luchs" Pz35(t) 1.2 Pz38(t) 1.1 Pz38(t)s 1.5 PzIIId 1.0 PzIIIe 1.0 PzIIIj 1.1 PzIIIL 1.1 PzIIIm 1.2 PzIIIm(flam) 1.5 PzIVc 1.2 PzIVd 1.1 PzIVe 1.1 PzIVF1 1.0 PzIVf2 1.0 PzIVg 1.0 PzIVh 1.1 PzVd 1.5 Panther PzVg 1.2 Panther PzVIe 1.3 Tiger PzVIb 1.4 King Tiger StgIIIb 1.1 StgIIIf 1.0 StgIIIg/105 1.2 StgIIIg/75 1.0 JdPz38(t) 1.1 Hetzer JdPz38 1.5 Flamm JdPz38d 1.5 JdPzIVg 1.2 JdPzIV 1.5 StuPzIV/43 1.5 Brummbar JdPz Tiger 1.5 Elefant JdPzV 1.4 Jagdpanther JdPzV 1.6 Jagdtiger Spw250/1 1.2 (ht) spw250/3 1.2 Spw250/8 1.3 Spw250/9 1.3 Spw250/10 1.3 Spw251/1 1.1 Spw251/2 1.1 Spw251/1w 1.3 Spw251/16 1.4 Flamm Spw251/9 1.3 Spw251/10 1.2 Spw251/22 1.4 Psw222 1.1 Psw231 1.0 Psw233 1.2 Psw234/1 1.2 Psw234/2 1.3 Puma Psw234/3 1.3 Psw234/4 1.5 Psw42 1.4 Mautier PzJagI 1.1 PzJagIId 1.1 MarderII PzJAGIIm 1.0 PzJAGIII/IV 1.3 Nashorn sIGIb 1.4 sIGII 1.3 sIG38h 1.2 Bison PzAII 1.2 Wespe Pza LrS 1.1 Schlepper Pza III/IV 1.2 Hummel FPz38(t) 1.4 (spaa) FPzIV/20 1.3 Wirblewind FPz IV/37 1.3 Ostwind Kublewagon 1.0 Opel 6700a 1.0 Blitz Bussing-NAG 1.2 SdKfz 11 1.3 SdKfz 7t 1.2 SdKfz Flak 1.4 Lkw Flak Truck 1.5 20mm Lkw Flak Truck 1.5 37mm This is also from the Cross of Iron armor listings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Bombs Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 10-4 on that Chupa, although I assume not too many catch the reference.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 . [ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Scipio ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_2 Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Originally posted by Spanish Bombs: You chaps forgot the KV-85 ... Wasnt that one pretty rare? As I recall (OK, so its largely from the Panzer Commander game pamphlet) there were only a few of those creatures. The KV-1S was more common, I think. I don't know about the Panzer Commander game... But it was a long time ago I read about it... So you might be right it was a rare tank...I just like the look of it..Don't really mind if it's not included.. [This message has been edited by Rupert_2 (edited 02-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noba Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Doghouse....The Rarity list from the Avalon Hill game of Cross of Iron brings back fond memories. My rulebook says Copyright 1978. The lists were revised for ASL. If I were you, I'd start ducking for cover. This topic usually gets some interesting responses. (Rarity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Trucks that don't look like they all came from Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Reily Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Noba You sound like an "Old Time" SLer. I never played ASL. I far as catching flak goes I'll grab my MP-40 and run for cover. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noba Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Old is an appropriate descriptor. I still enjoy the Historical games sometimes. Rarity in CM at the moment is not an important factor to me. With historical dates restricting purchases now, and a small time frame in relation the Eastern Front, the impact is low. When you have a vehicle that was used for a long period and due to production and losses changing historical availability, the effect could be applied to point values. I think the current points work and if players wish to change them with a system that 'adjusts' the points then thats up to them. (At this stage I don't know if rarity is planned for CM2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 I just checked the "revised" RFs for the Germans for 1944 onward, and I don't think they apply all that much. For one thing, ASL didn't differentiate very much between Western and Eastern fronts when they came up with those rarity factors. If you compare the rarity factors in ASL with the vehicles in CM for that year, there are some notable differences. For example the PzIII is missing, although from what I saw on the 'net, it seems to me that CM did the right thing by omitting it -- there weren't many left by then. Yet ASL gives it a rating of 1.3. e.g. 1944, listed by RF (.9 is common, 1.6 is almost impossible to find): 0.9 -- None. 1.0 -- None. 1.1 PzIVJ Marder (III)tM JgdPz38(t) SPW 251/1 SdKfz2 (vs. Russians) <-- there is always an exception to every rule. SdKfz 11 1.2 StuH 42 Marder II Marder III(t)H SPW 250/1 SPW 250/9 (vs. russians) SPW 251/10 PSW 222 (L) 2cm Flak LKW 3.7cm FlaK LKW 1.3 Pz IIIN Pz VIE(L) StuG 75/18(i) PzJg III/IV JgdPz IV JgdPz IV(L) SPW 250/9 SPW 250/10 SPW 251/sMG SPW 251/2 PSW 222 sIG 38(t) M PzA II SdKfz 10/4 1.4 Pz IIIL Pz VIB StuPz IV SPW 250/sMG SPW 250/7 SPW 251/9 SPW 251/16 PSW 231(8 rad) PSW 234/1 PzA III/IV FlakPz 38(t) SdKfz 6/2 SdKfz 7/1 SdKfz 2 1.5 Pz IIL Pz III(Fl) Pz M15/42(i) Pz IVE StuG IIIG(L) StuH 42(L) StuG 75/34(i) StuG 105/25(i) PzJg 35R(f) Marder I (France) SPW 250/8 PSW 233 PSW 234/2 PSW 234/3 PzA LrS(f) FlakPz IV/20 Goliath 1.6 Pz P26/40(i) Aufklaerer 38(t) PzJg Tiger StuG 75/46(i) JgdPz VI JgdPz 38(t)(Fl) FlakPz IV/37 If we go by these RFs, then one could argue that the units with RFs of 1.5 and 1.6 could have been omitted in the game, since they were so rare. I don't know if anyone will ever produce accurate "rarity values" for units, because how do you track what units were still around on a given date, it would take weeks to do that. Then people would ask "how many units were in Normandy on day x, how many units of each type were in Germany on day y", it would never end. BTS do the best you can, that's all I ask anyway. I didn't see any RFs for horses, bicycles or sidecars, that's too bad, it might have helped put an end to that debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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