Unloading Inf from transports

[Horncastle]

Anyone know if a more realistic method of using transport for troops has been thought of for CM2 or CMII?

For instance at present even when there is a command delay troops disembark immediately from the vechile as soon as you start the action/movie turn.

It would also be good if one could issue an order to a transport to wait until emabarkation before moving off, and likewise to infantry to move when the transport has reached its destination.

Also for a few members of a squad to be able to shoot from some transports would be good, or was this deemed dangerous. When I was in the Army cadets no one was permitted to have a magazine or loading rifle was this the same in WWII, or were more pressing rules such as not getting killed foremost.

[Forever Babra]

There are work-arounds to all these problems. Once the vehicle is in motion, just plot the destination for the passengers. When the vehicle stops, the passengers will de-bus and head for their plotted destination.

Under the latest patch, if the vehicle bogs, the passengers will stay aboard, but if it becomes immobilized they will de-bus at once.

Issue generous pause commands to the carrier while waiting for the passengers to bus. Better still, don't plot movement for the carriers at all until the passengers are aboard.

As for shooting from a vehicle, not a good idea. It's a trick and a half just to stay aboard on anything but a smooth road.

[Skipper]

As a related note, when giving long movement orders to a unit, I plot 1-2 waypoints abt 30 and 60 m before destination, plus anothr two abt 30 and 60 m after destination, plus another couple in different direction (alternative cover, back behind the hill or something like that). Since you can shift waypoints on the next turn, and/or change them from fast move to hunt or reverse, and all this without command delay. That's not gamey, by the way, that's unit CO exercising discretion to choose best position upon reaching ordered destination.

[Skipper]

> troops disembark immediately from the

> vechile

See above. When the vehickle is not stopped at the beginning opf the turn (ie, continues to execute the previous turn orders) infantry will wait until the vehicle stops. Or you may tell the vehicle to pause (to have imfantry disembark there and then).

[Leonidas]

There may be workarounds for this problem, but it's still a problem. I would like to see a Wait for Embark/Disembark command in CM2.

[Compassion]

Originally posted by Leonidas:

There may be workarounds for this problem, but it's still a problem. I would like to see a Wait for Embark/Disembark command in CM2.

Not sure how you mean that this is a problem. Seems to me that you are moving after a pause.... what's the problem with using the commands that you have? Or are ou looking for some kind of timed embark/disembark?

Curious how you would use this or why you would want your fighting men cooped up in tracks when there is shootin' to do.

[dumrox]

Skipper, in your reply, you stated, "Since you can shift waypoints on the next turn, and/or change them from fast move to hunt or reverse, and all this without command delay. ".

This is probably in the manual, but I don't have it with me right now. How do you change the command of an existing waypoint? I do move the waypoints around, but don't know how to change a "Move" waypoint to, say, a "Hunt" waypoint without backing out and reissuing (and then suffering the delay).

Thanks in advance.

[JoePrivate]

Originally posted by dumrox:

Skipper, in your reply, you stated, "Since you can shift waypoints on the next turn, and/or change them from fast move to hunt or reverse, and all this without command delay. ".

This is probably in the manual, but I don't have it with me right now. How do you change the command of an existing waypoint? I do move the waypoints around, but don't know how to change a "Move" waypoint to, say, a "Hunt" waypoint without backing out and reissuing (and then suffering the delay).

Thanks in advance.

Just left-click on the waypoint and press the key for the desired command.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Compassion:

Not sure how you mean that this is a problem. Seems to me that you are moving after a pause.... what's the problem with using the commands that you have? Or are ou looking for some kind of timed embark/disembark?

Examples of the problem:

1) You want to load some men onto vehicles, and have the vehicles carry the men up to the fighting. So you send the men running to the vehicles, and give the vehicles some pauses followed by fast move orders. Sometimes the men don't move as fast as you expect, and the vehicles drive off before they are loaded.

2) You want to unload vehicles, then use the vehicles elsewhere. So you give the vehicles pauses that you hope are long enough for the men to disembark. Except you misjudge the pauses, and the vehicles drive off before they are unloaded.

Either way, half your platoon is standing around and half is being carried down the road. I avoid most troop transport for this reason.

I know that you can argue that crazy things can happen in the midst of combat, and there should be some delays involved in all this. That's fine. But that isn't what's being modeled here. Either because of production time constraints on BTS or interface simplification, CM does not allow you to convey a very simple message that any driver should be able to understand - stand still until the vehicle is loaded or unloaded. (In actual practice, it would probably actually be - stand still until we tap on the hull with a rifle to tell you to move.)

I'm not faulting BTS on this. I know they're busy, and this isn't a major feature. But it's something I would like to see in CM2.

[This message has been edited by Leonidas (edited 02-08-2001).]

[109 Gustav]

On shooting from vehicles, it's impossible. I've tried it out myself, riding in the back of a truck, armed with a BB gun. When the truck was traveling at 35mph along a gravel road, it was impossible to hit cows at ranges over twenty yards. I had trouble keeping the BB gun pointed in the right general direction. Aiming consisted of getting the horizontal direction right, then timing the pothloles so my aim was close vertically.

Can you tell that we don't have much to do in Alaska? Ah well, if we didn't shoot at the cows, they would have gotten run over or something. It's all research for CM.

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Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat.

But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown.

And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing.

-Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska

[Tiger]

1) You want to load some men onto vehicles, and have the vehicles carry the men up to the fighting. So you send the men running to the vehicles, and give the vehicles some pauses followed by fast move orders. Sometimes the men don't move as fast as you expect, and the vehicles drive off before they are loaded.

You're trying to do too much at once. It only takes a minute or less to load up, try it with 9-12 of your friends on an open-flatbed and see if it happens "instantly" or takes a little time. Now give all your friends packs and shovels to carry and make that an enclosed truck and see how long it'll take them.

2) You want to unload vehicles, then use the vehicles elsewhere. So you give the vehicles pauses that you hope are long enough for the men to disembark. Except you misjudge the pauses, and the vehicles drive off before they are unloaded.

Same as loading up. Everyone doesn't leap over the side or run out the back as soon as it stops. They have to open the doors (half-track) disembark which means making sure you have all your equipment, haven't droppped anything, aren't knocking over your buddies, etc. etc. The vehicle crew makes sure that everyone is off. Remember, this all happens in 60 seconds, usually less if you give the occupants a move (i.e. disembark) command before the vehicle stops.

What you're asking for is no delay for embarking/disembarking, which I don't really see happening.

JMHO,

Tiger

[Guest Michael emrys]

Originally posted by Leonidas:

Examples of the problem:

1) You want to load some men onto vehicles, and have the vehicles carry the men up to the fighting. So you send the men running to the vehicles, and give the vehicles some pauses followed by fast move orders. Sometimes the men don't move as fast as you expect, and the vehicles drive off before they are loaded.

Solution: Have the vehicle pull up as close to the present location of the personnel as the situation permits and STOP! No further movement orders for the vehicle that turn. Then next turn, you should either have the personnel safely ensconced on the vehicle or a good idea how long it will take them to get there. You can now give movement orders to the vehicle, with pauses as needed (if you are using pauses, use one more than you think you'll need). It works.

2) You want to unload vehicles, then use the vehicles elsewhere. So you give the vehicles pauses that you hope are long enough for the men to disembark. Except you misjudge the pauses, and the vehicles drive off before they are unloaded.

This one I can't make sense of. You'll have to give me some more information.

See, if the vehicle is not moving at the start of the turn, and you have already plotted the personnel to debark, even one pause for the vehicle should be enough unless the personnel are suffering some really extreme form of command delay.

So I am wondering if you are trying to have a situation where you have a vehicle in motion at the start of the turn, and you want it to continue on to its destination, pause, disgorge its passengers and move on to some further destination, all in the same turn. There is no way this can be done in CM. This option was deliberately programmed out. In order for a vehicle's passengers to debark, the vehicle must halt for the remainder of that turn.

Sorry if I am repeating the obvious, but I couldn't be sure from the way that you worded your post whether that was what you had in mind.

Michael

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Tiger:

What you're asking for is no delay for embarking/disembarking, which I don't really see happening.

No, that's not what I'm talking about at all. I find it frustrating that every conversation about how to improve the game becomes a conversation about how to play the game, or about how I must be trying to ruin the game. Is it really that hard to imagine a better game?

There are many reasons that could cause a loading/unloading operation to go badly, regardless of how much time you allow. The loading infantry could become suppressed during the turn. Frequently there are traffic jams, which can delay vehicles and infantry as they try to reach the loading zone. Or a traffic jam can mean that the squad has no room to unload.

Note that this has nothing to do with the time it takes to load or unload. (Actually, CM currently doesn't seem to take much time at all to load or unload, which I think is correct.) Nor does this have anything to do with trying to move, load/unload, and move all in the same turn.

Mostly it has to do with the fact that suppression and movement in traffic jams are hard to predict.

I don't know how to put the question any more simply: Would CM be a better or worse game if you could tell a vehicle to wait until it loads or unloads?

[russellmz]

cripes, i could understand firecrackers and frog but bb guns and cows?

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russellmz,

Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ.

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