massimorocca Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 I've noticed only yesterday ( quick brain ) this feature, and I wonder if it's applied also for tanks without remaining ammo. I understand that there is a connection between the hunt command and the gun, so scout car can't perform hunting. And I know that a tank with damged gun must leave the battlefield asap. But that is'nt always possible and sometimes against infantry and mg the support of an ungunned tank is better than nothing. But now they can't use this cautious moving when they really needed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 What do ya mean a tank with a damaged gun "must leave the battlefield asap?" Am I missing something or is this a 1.1 thing. I mean, no it can't hunt, but you said it has to exit. I would use it just as you've described. It's still a viable, and mobile MG against soft tartets. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 I think he means that a tank with a damaged gun should leave the field immediately. Which I do not agree with. Sure, in most cases that is what would happen, but not in all. I can't really see why a tank with a damaged gun couldn't "hunt" though. But then, I cannot see why any vehicle should not be able to hunt, presuming it has a weapon of some kind, but that is probably another topic. Given that CM does not allow non-gunned vehicles to hunt, it is consistent that a vehicle with a damaged gun cannot hunt I suppose. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 In a way, not being able to hunt with a gun-damaged tank compensates for one of the deficiencies of the TacAI. Gun-damaged tanks don't seem to realize that they're gun damaged. In a PBEM I'm currently playing, I had a Veteran Hellcat facing off against a StuG. The Hellcat's gun was damaged by what looked like a mortar shell bursting nearby. If it'd reversed back about 5 meters it would have been in full defilade wrt the StuG. However, it sat there like a dope while the StuG found the range and blew it to hell. Whee. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 Well I suppose the "hunt" command was meant only for large caliber guns, and not anti-personnel weapons. My guess anyway, but I agree. Why would a tank immediately turn tail for the loss of a gun in the midst of a battle. CM's scope is only that for the most part of an hour long engagment. HQ might take a dim view of folks heading for the chow line when a fight was on. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 A tank would most likely back up into full defilade if it lost its gun in the middle of a tank battle. Why stay exposed when you can't shoot back?! That's what we'd have done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 Have to back up my fellow tanker, Mannheim on this one. Beleive me, if my 120mm goes 'tits up' while in battle, I will NOT be hunting. I will be backing out, hoping my wingman is covering me and popping smoke. Guys, try to think these things through. This is a game, and I wish when playing 'my soldiers' would be more brave, but they are based on real life soldiers that have one thing in mind - surviving the battle to get to the next day. ------------------ Jeff Newell TankDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 Speaking of thinking it through. There are more than one type of tank engaged in various roles, there are SP's as in your example, there are Close Infantry support tanks, there are tank hunters, and so on. "Of course", depending upon what "type" of tank is in question, the particulars of what is appropriate and what that "crew" might do, or might have done, is a variable determinant. A 105, just orta get the hell outa there, while a close infantry support vehicle engaged in...close infantry support and still capable of providing anti-personnel fire might be (depending upon a host of factors), a critical element to the moment and therefore might remain engaged against said personnel, or be ordered at least, not to head for the hills. I believe in the generalities of originating posts that the "tank should just sit there" was never mentioned and it goes without saying that the best action would be to seek a defensive position, hunting thereafter being something impossible since the large caliber gun that the "hunt" command is used for, is no longer in existance. I believe this started with the statement that a gun damaged tank should be whisked off the battlefield, not how best to use it if not, or what types of tanks should take what sort of post damage actions. My soldiers aren't necessarily that brave, they just consider the overall situation and respond accordingly. [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 Hi Bruno, Originally posted by Bruno Weiss: My soldiers aren't necessarily that brave, they just consider the overall situation and respond accordingly. I need to find soldiers like that. Please have them contact me so I can get them recruited. Most soldiers have know idea what the Overall Situation is. I brief them on tons of information, but very rarely could they repeat back to me what the overall situation is. I do however agree that just because the MA is down, the vehicle should not necessarily leave the battle. It depends what its role is. But again, no main gun, no hunt. ------------------ Jeff Newell TankDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 I think we sideswiped each other. Yep, me too. Hard to go rabbit hunting with a dog and no gun. Less ya got a mighty fast dog, but then there wouldn't be much rabbit left. Them troops are the Das Hampsterntruppen! Best dang hampstasteppers you ever did see. (Only thing is with four boots instead of two, they keep kicking themselves in the butt when they march). But we're working on that. One of the new stuper weapons. Fur toed boots. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 LOL!!! Can the hampstasteppers scout? ------------------ Jeff Newell TankDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 LOL!!! Can the hampstasteppers scout? ------------------ Jeff Newell TankDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 sorry, was laughing so hard it double-posted. [This message has been edited by TankDawg (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 15, 2001 Share Posted January 15, 2001 Sshhh, ist verboten informacion. However, I overheard it in a railroad station that even now, our scientists are hard at work in der underground Kittybunken somewhere in Eastern Hampstervania. Und zis new veapon will be unleased upon the Bolshevik hoards. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Is this new weapon called "Ginger?" Anyway, I think the real answer to the original question has been overlooked. As we are painfully aware, when a tank loses its main gun in CM it also loses its coaxial and/or bow MGs. Therefore it is completely unarmed. That's why it can't hunt, even if CM allowed vehicles armed only with MGs to hunt. Unless I am wrong. In which case, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 whoa!!! Have I been that oblivious?!?!?! Tanks that lose their Main Gun also can't fire MGs! Wow! That is totally stupid and lame. Say it ain't so. Guess I have never noticed. Can't belive BTS would let that slip by. ------------------ Jeff Newell TankDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Pvt. Ryan wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Unless I am wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You is. I just had a MkIV take gun damage losing it's main gun, and though the turret MG was not available, the bow MG created a lot of problems for a nearby enemy infantry advance, and became particularly critical in it's anti-personnel defensive fire. Depends upon the tank, the damage, and the situation at hand. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 You're usually oblivious, TankDawg, but not this time IIRC, however, you DO lose the coax if the main is knocked out. Wouldn't swear to it though...I usually lose the whole tank! LOL! ------------------ "Oooh, tough crowd. A real bunch of nihilists. Let them eat chads..." - Lawyer (who else!?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Well I know I didn't imagine the big label that said "Gun Damage", or all the Polish infantry scampering around trying to avoid it's MG bullets. Nihilists huh, hmm, I'd say a bit more like nattering nabobs of negativism. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 OK, I guess I was wrong. It always seems that my tanks lose all MGs if the main gun is damaged. Maybe the bow MG is just out of ammo, but I can't get the tank to shoot at anything. Sorry for the misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Nah, no need. What, you wanna be factual and stand out in the crowd er sumptin? ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 In CM's terms, if the main gun is damaged, then it is *assumed* that the coaxial gun has been damaged too since they are both mounted in the same mantlet. Of course, in reality this may not be the case, but in CM's list of abstractions, this is how it works. Now for a tank to still use, its hull mounted MG, of course it still has to have ammo. Now if my memory serves, the hull MGs carry a fraction of the ammo that the coaxial MGs carry, so in most cases, this ammo has probably been used up already. So in this case, I agree with massimorocca. I'd rather save the points of the AFV by withdrawing it off the battlefield than to leave it out there as a mobile potential coffin. As for the "Hunt" arguments, all of those opinions/facts have been mentioned already. ------------------ "Live by the sword, live a good LOOONG life!"-Minsc, BGII "Boo points, I punch."--Minsc, BGII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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