Miles.Osborne Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Hi I love the PBEM option and it was one of the major selling points of the game. The only downside is their is an awful lot of emails tooing and frooing for each turn. I understand this is to stop cheating and totally agree with an anti-cheater approach. Cheating would absolutely wreck the game. However at the moment the turns are effectively. You setup email he setsup email you move email he moves email you watch the movie email he watches the moview email. Why couldn't it be the following: You Setup Email He Setus up He moves email you move email he watches the movie email you watch the movie you move email Basically the idea is that an email always occurs prior to the movie so that no one would do a move then see the movie. Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Basically the idea is that an email always occurs prior to the movie so that no one would do a move then see the movie. Umm...as it is now, no one moves and then sees the movie. You move after the movie. I'm cornfuzed about what you're saying. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlop Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 It's late and my brain hurts from thinking about it. But basically, that's how it already works. You can't ever move and then see the movie. Sometimes you'll only get to plot, sometimes only see the movie (as you already know). The way it's currently setup is, I believe, the best and only way to deter cheating. This is an old, old topic, you might want to try a search and you'll get bundles of explanations about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 I haven't played a PBEM in a while, but unless they made a change in 1.1, the way your suggesting is how it works. There has been suggestions before to modify the turn structure, but this way seems to be a good balance of keeping mail swaps to a minimum, while not compromising security. Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashford Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 I can see what the differences are: 1. In the proposed new version a player gets to setup and then plot the moves straight away rather than having to send the file away with just their choices. 2. There has been an error in that Miles has accidently missed the fact that you can plot movement directly after the second person has watched the movie without having to send a PBEM to the opponent. At first glance point one could look good, however I think that the reason this has been done is because of the fear that if you allow movement plotting directly after unit choice and positioning you oculd end up having something spotted in the movement phase which may influence you so much you redo the unit choice. For an example of what I mean, start a single player QB on a small map in perfectly flat/open conditions, after the setup phase you move directly into the movement phase almost any armour the enemy has becomes visible. This is why I think things are doen in the sequence they are at the moment... me thinks? Hope this is useful to you. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goofy Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Miles.Osburn wrote: Basically the idea is that an email always occurs prior to the movie so that no one would do a move then see the movie. I don't understand, is this the way you want to see it or are you just acknowledgeing that this is the way it currently is? Because it is. I know that after I plot my movement if I see the blue bar fill up my opponent is going to see the movie first, if I don't see it then I will see the movie first. I tend to play two games at once so while I've got a turn, they've got a turn. You don't feel like you spend much time waiting. I really enjoy PBEM but to my mind playing TCP/IP while using one of the commo programs is the ultimate, even better (and faster) than hotseat. That way we watch the movie simulataniously so as things happen I can taunt my opponent or moan when things hit the crapper at the very same moment he's doing the same. If you haven't done this yet you are missing one of the best experiences in gaming!! ------------------ NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles.Osborne Posted February 2, 2001 Author Share Posted February 2, 2001 Originally posted by gashford: I can see what the differences are: At first glance point one could look good, however I think that the reason this has been done is because of the fear that if you allow movement plotting directly after unit choice and positioning you oculd end up having something spotted in the movement phase which may influence you so much you redo the unit choice. For an example of what I mean, start a single player QB on a small map in perfectly flat/open conditions, after the setup phase you move directly into the movement phase almost any armour the enemy has becomes visible. This is why I think things are doen in the sequence they are at the moment... me thinks? Graham Yes you are quite correct in the point I was trying to make. I can't remember the way it handles it, I have 3 PBEM games running and a lot of them seem to be see movie or play move then straight into email. However I accept that depending on whether you started the game or not depends on whether you get to watch the movie then play the move. My feeling is that setup should immediately be emailed. However I can see no reason why after a movie you cannot then do a move as however you play it the movie will always do the same thing. Maybe if i'm not clear I should start again Definitely I believe that the amount of emails between players could be reduced at no loss in protection. Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Originally posted by Miles.Osborne: Yes you are quite correct in the point I was trying to make. I can't remember the way it handles it, I have 3 PBEM games running and a lot of them seem to be see movie or play move then straight into email. However I accept that depending on whether you started the game or not depends on whether you get to watch the movie then play the move. My feeling is that setup should immediately be emailed. However I can see no reason why after a movie you cannot then do a move as however you play it the movie will always do the same thing. Maybe if i'm not clear I should start again Definitely I believe that the amount of emails between players could be reduced at no loss in protection. Miles Miles, I think you are confused. You proposal is exactly how it currently works. (Each number represents an email in one direction) 1). Player A sets up. 2.) Player B sets up. Player B does orders for turn 1. 3.) Player A does orders for turn 1. Player A generates movie. 4.) Player B watches movie. 5.) Player A watches movie. Player A does orders for turn 2. 6.) Player B does orders for turn 2. Player B generates movie. 7.) Player A watches movie 8.) Player B watches movie. Player B does orders for turn 3. 9.) Goto step 3, increment turn counter to turn 4. Etc., etc. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles.Osborne Posted February 2, 2001 Author Share Posted February 2, 2001 Jeff Thanks for that I have starred the areas I feel could be more efficient. The point I was trying to make but failing dismally Miles Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: Miles, I think you are confused. You proposal is exactly how it currently works. (Each number represents an email in one direction) 1). Player A sets up. 2.) Player B sets up. Player B does orders for turn 1. 3.) Player A does orders for turn 1. Player A generates movie. 4.) Player B watches movie. ** Why doesn't he now do his moves as well?** 5.) Player A watches movie. Player A does orders for turn 2. 6.) Player B does orders for turn 2. Player B generates movie. 7.) Player A watches movie ** Why doesn't he now do his moves ** 8.) Player B watches movie. Player B does orders for turn 3. 9.) Goto step 3, increment turn counter to turn 4. Etc., etc. Jeff Heidman [This message has been edited by Miles.Osborne (edited 02-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 I think that the PBEM system is best described in terms of what happens during the battle, and leaving the setup exchanges alone. It's a three step cycle: 1) One player only watches the movie. 2) The other player watches the movie and gives orders. 3) The first player gives orders, and generates. In the next cycle, the players switch positions in the pattern. The part of this that seems a bit excessive is that this cycle is set up to alternate the player who performs generation. If you wanted to speed up the process, you could have just one player do the generation, and accomplish each turn in just two steps: 1) Player A watches the movie and gives orders. 2) Player B watches the movie, gives orders, and generates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Leoniads has it right when he states: 1) Player A watches the movie and gives orders. 2) Player B watches the movie, gives orders, and generates. This is the optimal way of playing out PBEM games AND eliminating the chance of cheating. Unfortunately, the game engine was not written with this in mind. We in fact had to rework some stuff to get TCP/IP to work correctly. However, it was too much work to go back and retrofit the changes for PBEM games. Good news is that this is planned for CM2 - Eastern Front Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binkie Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 This is good news, Steve, and I had always wondered why the first viewer couldn't plot his moves at that time. I originally thought that it should be no problem to attach a move "addendum" onto the movie text file, so it would be available for the next movie generation after the second player made his move. My conclusion was that you wanted to alternate who saw the movie first. But I always figured if you took a poll, not too many people would care about alternating first viewings. Especially in the face of reducing their emailing by a substantial amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 http://www.sci.fi/~fuerte/pbem.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles.Osborne Posted February 3, 2001 Author Share Posted February 3, 2001 Yep been using this utility for the last few days. An excellent assistant to the PBEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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